why are we even encouraging the system? Healthy people get robbed while sickly people get shafted, and the solutions are make more healthy and sick people get fucked by a third party or turn every hospital into the VA.

The fines were meant to keep people in the system so they did not join only when they got sick. You cannot make an insurance model work when people can wait to buy insurance only when they actually need it. Imagine being able to buy homeowner insurance when your house is on fire.

you know how you fix that without fining poor people? a waiting period for coverage to start

Why? Because when people get sick they want to be cared for. This whole ACA happened because the system before it wasn't working for a lot of people.

Grenade, yes and no. Who pays when they have to wait?

They do. Which is what charity is for and should be encouraged to do. IF they couldn't afford insurance before, they can't afford it now. And fining people already too poor to pay only takes food out of their mouth.

the solution for a person too poor to pay was making them pay or make them pay when they can't. and you are asking how will they pay.

Okay, let's look at a real example. Someone has a heart attack and their open heart surgery and associated care results in a $100,000 bill. Who pays it is the people eschewed insurance?

My ultimate point will be are we willing to let people die because they went uninsured and cannot pay?

technically they can go in and get treatment if they are dying already.

correct me if i am wrong, but it is illegal to refuse them treatment is it not?

but that's besides the point. Who gets to choose who dies when there is not enough resources to go around?

Yes, it is - for hospitals only. But that's my point. If people don't have insurance and come to the hospitals how do hospitals stay in business?

Imagine an airline surviving if people could just say, "Sorry, can't pay. I'll take the 6am flight to Las Vegas, please. Put it on my tab."

how do they stay in business. good question. but shifting the burden onto insurance companies only kicks the can down the road

Eventually our charity will put us out of business.

Hence the challenge to society

i don't believe we lack enough caring people to cover all medical bills for those who really need it. I do believe we have a lack of ability to connect people with money to people in need.

We need to decide will we permit people to die of perfectly treatable conditions, or will society take the cost of providing care.

you know who is really bad at finding all the people in need? the federal government. You know who wastes a lot of money on shit it shouldn't? the federal government. You know who doesn't really care about people? Insurance companies. You know, ironically enough, has a better track record with all this stuff? The church. Community centers, charities.

Also, people who neglect routine care because they can't afford it are more likely to end up needing catastrophic care later. It's very expensive to treat people only when it's a crisis.

and you know what is great? when these places get too big and wasteful? we get to defund them so more money gets to the people in need, and not to people acting like an insurance company.

because i don't know about you, i don't like a charity where the CEO gets like 200k or more a year.

Sounds great but tell that to all the communities that are losing their hospitals these days

https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/welcome-ad?toURL=/strategy/hospitals-closing-rate-30-year-no-end-sight

hmmm, and have we looked into why?

https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-18-634

Why take the price of healthcare for granted?

why is it so expensive?

That's one of the main issues I have with these approaches

throwing money at the problem without figuring out why its bleeding money in the first place sounds like a great way to waste resources and still ahve people dying

Anyway, I gotta go or risk being in contempt of court. 😃

emotion gets you killed

I understand the sympathetic impulse to do what you can meantime, but that's likely to make things worse in the long run

panic is an emotion. panic in any left threatening situation gets you killed.

Since it also disincentivizes attacking the root problem

people die, people will die, the question is not how do we stop them dying, its how do we get less people to die.

IMO a good look needs to be taken as to why healthcare is like it is

Why does it have this unique insurance model that doesn't correspond to anything else?

And who chooses if they die. i'd rather let nature choose who dies, than the government

i'd rather let bad life choices like smoking, decide who dies than a health insurance company