Message from @Beemann
Discord ID: 486236232221851649
Yeah heaping praise on McCain is a tactic for the left to attempt to peel away NeverTrumpers ahead of the mid-terms.
I love McCain because he hates Drumpf #resist (even though he voted for a war that murdered 500,000 innocent civilians (mostly muslims))
The guy was also a complete failure as a presidential candidate. I don't know how many NeverTrumpers are going to be legitimately nostalgic for a guy who was consistently praising his opponent Obama while simultaneously appearing like a doddering old fool.
the rhetoric that i should hate him as a person because i may not agree with his views is meh to me, but in his case i think its hard for me to get emotionally opposed to him since my grandfather seems kind of similar, yet i knew he was a great dude
i'd admit to being undecided about military intervention. i don't like it but grown up hearing why it *can be* just from people close to me
I think McCain did great things and all this sudden hate is really unjustified and appalling.
I also will agree the strange media obsession with him is a very special form of concern trolling.
Sure, a great politician, but a terrible republican
What great things did he do?
He was a PoW during the Vietnam war.
Well know why he was called songbird?
Even if they did call him that, it's not exactly fair to use as a insult. Torture works.
I mean, the man only had one limb that wasn't broken when they took him to the Hilton, and they refused him treatment for several days, until they set two of them without anesthesia
I wonder if we will see a McCain dossier, about what he has done wrong and how he instigated Wars and why.
My guess would be that that might eventually happen. Though it surves no purpose as he's dead
Torture works in the sense that it provides bad intel, and McCain spoke out against it.
@possumsquat93 Torture only produces bad intel if the person you are getting it from doesn't know anything.
>the trump balloons in that politico article
Is the left just a miserable little pile of forced memes?
You don't know if the person does or doesn't know what you want to find from them, so torture is still shit m8
Yes you do. If you get the same info from multiple people you can be pretty certain they are not lying. Second, it also depends on what you are told.
If someone knows something, they are going to tell you. It doesn't matter if they lie a hundred times, eventually they will talk.
>same info from multiple people
"Major well known group was behind major well known attack" isn't a hard sell
And again, if you torture someone a hundred times and they *lie* in a different way this is indistinguishable from torturing someone a hundred times and then having them tell the truth
Plus you're also assuming that you have multiple sources for this intel, when that often isn't the case
Remember when the US started a war with Iraq based on like 2 sketchy ass sources?
It's a violation of U.S. law and the Geneva Conventions.
law is ethically irrelevant, it is also practically irrelevant when it isn't enforced
Irrelevant in the case of unjust law?
Not sure what you mean.
If we don't want our own soldiers subjected to that kind of treatment, we shouldn't be okay with doing it to our enemies.
And well, alot of the people who are against torture from my view mainly disagreed with it because it was unreliable. Since Mattis sees it as unreliable I think theres something there.
I agree that it's unreliable. But I'm also not really an "ends justify the means" type of person.
Just saying its usually the most common or their biggest point.
A paniced mind is not a stable one, and bad intel is just as bad if not worse as no intel
The law has no actual necessary connection to justice, nor is it relevant consequentially if nobody ever enforces it
There are plenty of unjust laws, or laws nobody really pays attention to
@GingaBomber Yeah, people can be anti-torture for various reasons. From my perspective, there's something fundamentally wrong with it, regardless of the information gathered.
Eh call it pragmatism.
Personally if I was told that I had to do shit like that for something I really care about, im not gonna lie but Ill be inclined to agree with it.
But im not saying that makes it right.
A pro life woman's picture was used in a pro abortion story
@GingaBomber Part of the human condition - we don't always live up to our ideals.