I never said anyone was, I was just saying that's usually where it gets brought into the conversation

Oh, okay. Good.

Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed.

But that's usually the starting point with those kinds of converstaions.

Well usually it's finding a balance between structure and social freedom

That assumption has been spread far and wide and it's been like pulling teeth for me trying to get people away from it.

And traditional structures worked in some ways, and we know what the pitfalls are. It's not surprising that people would go for them wholesale

Progressivism real Progressivism is a real choice but few advocate for it because it would hurt the current power structure of the west irrevocably

Some traditions are probably spot on

I just don't think most people are informed about the history of feminism, which is why their default assumption is that feminism started out great but somehow got off track, just like Tim seems to do.

Feminism actually never changed.

Feminism has always been about gynocentrism.

The dichotomy strengthens the current power holders

So, if we are all for egalitarianism - great - but I will do hell to conflate the two.

You won't catch me dead equating the two.

We got to where we are in fits and starts, but I'm glad that we have achieved what we have. Racial equality, equality of the sexes, enhanced personal liberty and agency, etc. Now we just need to deal with the less savory consequences. I'd like to see us do that without losing the good stuff.

We can also discuss pretty much any feminist author if you don't believe me.

Yes, agree, but here's the rub:

We've shifted from the original point of contention but okay

We don't have those though

WIth the excesses we are facing now, we might very well be in the process of "losing the good stuff".

We went too far one way

That is what I am truly scared of. Things such as due process.

We have always been inclined towards women.

We have been inclined towards possessing and protecting women

Women get away with murder. There was a point when prosecutors were discussing no longer prosecuting women for murder, because they would usually cry in a court room and the jury would often let them get off.

I am scared nowadays to even interact with women.

I don't want my friends, brothers, or father to have to deal with false alelgations, for example.

We have gone absolutely batshit crazy in that regard.

I know two people who have dealt with false accusations- one legally and one socially

Yes, I do too.

And how did it go?

A friend of a friend committed suicide over it.

Yikes

Those things actually happen a lot.

One went to prison and then was let out when it was revealed it was untrue, one was nearly completely isolated but I vouched for him

Thank god.

And it was later 100% confirmed that the accuser was lying in the latter case

If we cam stop false allegations it would be nice

I was the only one though

I flipped two other people