Minimum wage argument is a waste of time. Anyone who doesn't see how flawed it is, doesn't want to.

No, it's not a waste. I didn't take the time to understand the issues with it until my 20s.

If someone doesn't want to argue honestly about it after you present the facts, fine. I agree with you there. IT's like arguing with pigeon:

it will shit on the board, knock over the pieces, and pretend it won.

But there are people out there who are receptive to the arguments and just haven't been introduced to them.

Most of the time they are not engaged in the thread, so have not emotional investment in the outcome of the discussion, but lurk and you can red pill them as onlookers.

I don't always do a good job at that, but I try to bring good arguments in public debates, even when I realize that my opponent is not arguing in earnest.

If I argue with someone in private and they are just throwing idiotic nonsense out there, I terminate the conversation and drop a few links so I don't have to make the same arguments over again that people better than me have made.

I enjoy our chats, UM. As I've stated, I haven't worked for minimum wage since I was in high school, my daughter who is about to enter the workforce will make more than it, and as an employer we have no positions that make minimum although with Oregon's higher minimum it's getting close.

I am familiar with economics and actually have worked at the University of Chicago so am familiar with their school of economics.

Personally I'm less for an particular solution than for the result. I don't want legal Americans starving or dying unnecessarily. We are rich enough to ensure our people can live reasonably regardless of circumstance.

Anyone who thinks minimum wages are bad, is completely idiotic

How we do that is open to lively and rational debate

Though it depends on the amount the company's are being forced to pay

15$ is also bad

But I gotta get on the road

Ttyl

@Cody so you punish companies because illegal immigrates are willing to work for less to get a job over someone else?

Codes, minimum wages are distortions. They might be useful when properly deployed, but that can easily be debated. Ultimately my take again is that I care not for the means, I care for the ends in this case. How do we ensure our people have food, shelter, basic clothing, and health care for illnesses that can cause mortality or significant morbidity.

TTFN Codes

I have to head to work too

Grenade, we could just deport them illegals and secure our borders

But hey

It's only black and white I guess

okay, so how about when the economy starts going down and people are willing to work for less in exchange for a job?

sink the company and put everyone out of work but hey, at least 1 person was getting 15 an hour instead of 2 making 7.50 an hour

But that is why having minimum wage too high is bad

yes, but how do you find out what is too high

Grenade, I personally think we need to do like we do for corporate fraud and require all corporations to have a human resource officer to sign that they are responsible for hiring practices. That person must have authority over hiring practices. If the company is found to be hiring illegals in a systemic or negligent manner, that person goes to jail.

This and large corporate fines will solve the problem pretty quick.

and how do you know it won't go from being reasonable, to suddently being too high?

But anyhow I really am about to start driving, be back in half an hour

np

No one takes seriously punishing those who hire illegals

If there was no market for their labor, the issue would minimize pretty quick

there wouldn't be a market if not for min wage and people not willing to work.

Oh, eliminating the min in my mind would *increase* demand for illegal labor

It would decrease demand for automation

i don't think it would increase demand for illegal labor

it wouldn't necessarily decrease it either

If illegals are willing to work below the price point for robots, why not? Unless we strengthen the punishments for employing them.