@WizardLizardInABlizzard How so? You're asking me to prove a negative. free speech as a right is an assertion

Why not?

Who said anything about comitting crime with thought?

We're talking about free speech

Can you justify free speech?

not in an-com

Nor is that an argument

It's *totalitarian* levels and not necessarily, we're talking about *free speech* the expression of thought

not actual thought

quit dodging the question, can you justify free speech?

No, it's directly creating speech crimes

you can think, but you can't express it

Again

You actual NPC, can you justify free speech?

God given?

Where did God say that?

Where did God say that the right to free speech is *good?*

He respects our free will, but that doesn't mean we **should** use it however we want

So, why **should** we allow free speech as a right? Murder is also respected a part of free will, but that doesn't mean we allow it.
`Not all speech is good but that doesn't mean it should be banned`
Why not?

@Noxar it's not necessarily normal reproduction

Why should *all* ideas by expressed?

So? Not all contestants are rational

see: NPCs

<@!396901899724521482> can you justify that human right?

Why should free speech be a principle? Free speech is a relatively new concept and we had nations way before it.
`Correct not all ideas are rational, that doesn't mean I should have a criminal record for voicing them`
Why not if those ideas threaten the establishment (assuming our preferred establishment)
`what is with you and human rights, do you believe in slavery?`
I just believe in duty, not rights.

<@!396901899724521482> I find it humorous that atheists think that religious people have only faith and no evidence yet usually have absolute faith in ''human rights''

`Would it then not be your duty to convince others of toxic ideologies instead of imprisoning them.`
Unless they won't be convinced

@WizardLizardInABlizzard Prison *is* public shame

Nor is that Christian :^)

Having a criminal record isn't shameful?

Shame isn't punishment?

@WizardLizardInABlizzard How so? You're telling me that people aren't ashamed of having criminal records?

Are you actually telling me this?

Or even that public shaming *isn't* punishment?

And I'm telling you that prison does not necessarily have to inhibit people from contribution

they can be labor

so?

what, and just bore them to death?

Not much of a punishment

why is slavery wrong anyways?

an entire class?

What's this class?

You mean the prisoners

Not a class, like it's some caste

Yeah, why not?

They can do good deeds because of their bad deeds

We don't have to do it if it's not pragmatic

but they can be useful in some way

Community service

Whatever, really

No, that's totalitarianism

you NPC

most final stage communist ideologies wouldn't have government

well, there's some nuance

but that's the basic gist

@WizardLizardInABlizzard but you're only arguing about the pragmatic effects of punishing dissent *in one way*, not justifying free speech.
`Fine, totalitarianism prevents natural development in all aspects; tech, culture, economy, everything`
Not necessarily, although *corporatism* does sacrifice efficiency for stability which is great.
`>real communism never existed
I wonder fucking why`
It did, although rather pathetically most of the time

`Capitalism and free market is the best fertilizer for innovation`
No, it's the best encouragement for appealing to base desires

Greed

You need an actor with the greed to satisfy the demand

But we got off topic

We were talking about free speech

You didn't justify it, but only switched to advocating a different punishment

>libertarian socialist
now that's faggy

come on dude

@WizardLizardInABlizzard you *can* pick both which just makes it worse

Social libertarianism

in a nusthell: You can be degenerate in all kinds of ways

@WizardLizardInABlizzard not necessarily

Libertarianism just means cultural freedom

You can be free market and be a monarchist

see: neo-reactionarism

`International Corporatism*`
>muh it's not REAL capitalism

@Logical-Scholar only american ''''''''''''''''conservatives''''''''''''''

@Punished Norm it's the real result of capitalism, which is corporatocracy, not corporatism

corporatism is catholic or fascist economics

@WizardLizardInABlizzard you use ''right wing'' wrong too

>Merkel
>Christian
yeah right
@Punished Norm And government is inevitable.
@WizardLizardInABlizzard fair enough
`Papal economics all gold goes to the Pope`
A lot more complex than that

someone mentioned her

@Logical-Scholar wow BAAAAAAAAAASED

Not enough

you do

You can't philosophically justify your worldview

Agnosticism is an ignorance

@Discourse~♡ anime is not allowed here too

@Discourse~♡ stop being degenerate

@WizardLizardInABlizzard so are you going to justify free speech or not?

@sad slav can you justify it?

@WizardLizardInABlizzard No, you only argued against punishing it with slave labor

Exactly

It can be

now that's a claim

why not?

But that doesn't mean we have to allow them to express their opinion, we can still censor them.

Nor is all slave labor detrimental to the economy

They risked leading to extremism either way. Having them talk behind closed doors is the goal

they won't be able to propagate it

No, it gets propagated if you allow it to be spread easily

>shut down
what

@sad slav No, people today just want their bread and circus, they don't need free speech. The people who aren't degenerates reject free speech either way. Nor you justify it. So what people get on the rise? Squash them. Hell, can you justify *any* ethical claim?

`It gets regected`
in what way?