like the romans they had collapsed mouth breather faces

i think you're going with a lot of naive romanticism

the nobility would've lived quite well, but for most people the feudal system sucked

there's a reason they had to outlaw suicide and say you were going to be punished eternally for it

the nobility were the ones who had good diets and ate meat

talking about high middle ages

when we go into the age of sugar the feudal system has fallen apart

most people came out of serfdom 1400s, americas discovered in 1500s

by 1500 we're looking at beginnings of modern economy and a mostly literate professional population of tradesmen and agriculture all enclosure

open field system was long gone

talking about high and late middle ages*

sugar comes along beginning of modern age

this is the big misconception in sort of vague pop history is idea that feudalism has been present until relatively recently in north western europe, but mechanisation and what led to industrial revolution and modern economy began 500 years ago in england

serfs lived on a borderline starvation diet of grain when they were doing well

people had underdeveloped facial structure and bad teeth because they live off grain

and they weren't able to grow much lol it was subsistence farming with many people living in the equivalent of a dog house

it's a vision of hell lol

there were also castes of serfs and even the highest castes of serfs on most manors lived terrible lives and at best had their own bed

let alone how most people lived sleeping on the floor or outside

where did you get these ideas from? lol

what we're discussing still exists in the world today where people live in subsistence farming and you can see it and how awful their lives are

it was far worse back in the feudal system

"the only thing they had to worry about was the taxes"??? they regularly experienced famines and disease wiping out large fractions of their communities lol

omg, wtf are you talking about??? the reason that urbanisation happened is because agricultural enclosure produced so much more food

famines basically end when urbanisation begins

it's called the malthusian trap. england broke free of it first and that's why the economic viabiltiy of mechanisation came about

everything you're saying at this point is just a deluded inversion of basic educaiton in this history

it almost seems as if you're just making things up to suit some weird agenda you have

the reason that urbanisation happened and towns and cities grew in population is the break down of the open field system and the transition to agricultural enclosure

why are you harping on about disease? diseases came and went all the time, the worse thing is the famines

the famines happened because of backwards stagnant feudal system

the diseases happened largely because of the famines

NO

JUST STOP

STOP

in the high middle ages began the privatisation of the commons and open field system and the creation of these early "capitalist" farms were far more productive

they produced more food with a lower number of workers freeing up the serfs and making them economically obsolete

THEN *because of* more food being produced with less workers, the result was large waves of urbanisation

this more producitve agricultural system and larger populations in the towns

omg

NO

NO

the malthusian trap is where the population increases because of serfdom where it can only sustain a certain size of population

that results in lower living standards and leads to a famine and THAT is the death cycle

what YOU ARE A PROPONENT OF IS THE DEATH CYCLE

THE FAMOUS DEATH CYCLE

GO ANDLEARN WHAT THE MALTHUSIAN TRAP IS

YOU'RE LITERALLY A PROPONENT OF WHAT IS ESTABLISHED FACTUALLY AS THE DEATH CYCLE

what i'm discussing is what BROKE the death cycle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_trap

why are you so opinionated on something you know nothing about?

and serfdom is not living in harmony with nature lol

that's a whole other conversation, but so far preferable to living as serfs lol

so what happened is that agricultural enclosure stopped this cycle of famines and starvation

and that's when this happens

see the chart on the top left?

why?

why would we all starve to death?

the problems with this new stage of civilisation are how that society is increasingly going to be engineered, which really is just the next stage of what serfdom was of this cult-like thinking of platonic truths of reaching a higher truth

for example the politics of genetic engineering and so on the whole kacyznski type narrative

lol we're going to turn the world into a smoldering crater?

you mean nuclear armageddon?

then humans will go back to the truly naturla way of living that they are evolved for as nomads

so stop eating garbage food lol

if you're again goign to suggest that serfs had good diets you've got to be kidding

we're talking about a people that we dig up their skeletons and they have all sorts of health problems

poor skeletal development, of course they were largely all short because they were so malnurished

they were about half a foot shorter than us because of their poor diet

and the nobility far taller

lol

are you trying to make me laugh?

i can't tell at this point if you're being serious or not

no, they were unhealthier

many knights and nobility around 6 foot tall

the serfs were starving midgets

because they ate nothing but some grain

again you're wrong as we know that genetically the commoners of 1400 were the same as the nobility of 1100 but we still see that nobility were developed and had good diets

whilethe serfs were starving and malnourished and short

no, we've already been over this that they moved to the cities and became far wealthier

no, far higher quality of life

stop pulling nonsense out of your bumhole

just making up idiotic shit on the spot lol

they went from living in rags, malnourished 5 foot tall skeletal people with teeth falling out and broken backs at age 25

to being literate professionals who earned large wages and had spending money

serfs literally burnt their own shit for a fire

human feces was used for fires by serfs

north koreans live far better lives than middle ages serfs

are you 12 years old pelth?

why do you have this strange obsession with romanticising the lives of serfs?

it's documented in history

through their remains, through the records of wages, of trade, of gdp per capita

@Pelth https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2017/03/15/first-worldism-part-5-the-european-revolution/

you're an idiot, we're literally discussing the creation of the tradesmen classes and now you're claiming they didn't have wages

you're an actual idiot

you have no idea of what you're talking about at all

@CallMeTruckson why are you so upset about china?

@Pelth you're talking about serfs. once people became freemen they had to earn a living. you don't know anything about middle ages or early modern history

@Pelth you need to stop. you don't know what you're talking about and don't have an argument

@Pelth a serf is someone who is bound to land. you need to stop. this is not a conversation between equals. you don't understand anything about this