lol

marxism

No, not at all. Marxism is dumb

What is a "state apparatus"?

And how do you have ownership without constructing an institution of coercion and compulsion?

However you define state, you need some coercive power to compel people to respect the owner's decisions regarding their property

The workers of *what* get to own *what*?

Does everyone own everything all at once?

@Марко Then the workers of a given factory need some sort of coercive agency to enforce their decisions regarding what they own

mhmm

@Марко A non-worker comes to the factory and wants to use it to make a different kind of toy than the workers want. What happens?

@Марко He wasn't laboring before. He came into the factory, shoved other workers aside, and began to make toys.

Do the other workers no longer own the factory because they were forced to stop working?

The person who wanted to make a different thing who wasn't working before

We'll call them Person A

@Марко But the individual was not a worker. He literally came into the factory, forced other workers to stop working the MoP, took that MoP (began working it), and started using it differently.

Did he magically begin to own the MoP when he started working it, while the others lost ownership?

@Марко He did not force all the workers, he forced some working on a definite section. He can still try. What happens when he tries? Do the workers defend themselves? Do they coerce Person A to keep him from forcing the workers out?

Do we magically assume no one disagrees with regard to how a given set of the MoP ought to be used?

Democratic vote is literally an instrument to exclude the disagreeing minority from the majority opinion. The workers no longer all own the MoP in this case, but only the majority opinion.

so then we assume they all agree?

@Марко So then they're free to get excluded from their "ownership" if they disagree with the majority opinion. You have not solved the problem by appending the word "consensus" to the word "democracy".

How do you decide what section of the MoP an individual owns?

(we can pass over in silence regarding the implicit smuggling in of private property here)

@Scooby Doob You don't need to be a leftist for that. You could also be an autistic libertarian.

So if you work in factory A, you don't get to decide how it is run

If you can't do what you want to do with the MoP you are not deciding how to run it

You have lost ownership

If everyone had consensus there literally would be no need for ownership at all

assuming it is completely abortive

What do you mean "participated in consensus"?

Consensus is a state of being where everyone agrees

It is not a process

And if it can't?

that's the problem

what if it can't

"they leave"

welp, there you go, exclusion.