Its free labour

Free Labour and better conditions

why can't that be an argument for slavery

so you can make a moral case for the economics of slavery but not a moral case for the condition

lmao

don't you see the flaw in the logic here

So poverty is an economic situation but slavery isn't?

can you explain why

So if giving slaves money doesn't elavate them from slavery, would you apply the same principle and logic to wagecucks

what

how are slaves not participants in the economy

they create the economy

Yeah but they take part in the economy

the very fact that slaves existed was for free labour to take part in the economy

geez

Lets establish the principle here, the validity and credibility of economic participation is based on the mutually benefical contribution of the participant?

but the economy still operates

So if Slaves are mechanism of the economy thereby establishing that the economy does work, it can be an argument for slavery as a means to run the economy. Is it not?

Yes welfare for slaves is basically a bonus for them.

It's both, because from an economic perspective, the labour is free. Can you agree with that? And if you do, then the moral argument gains credibility by the welfare conditions

Slaves are the properties of the owner so assumign they would have been kept to the house or confined to the property. Better treatment and conditions is a moral argument for it? Given that the other option for them to be to find work which they wont.

The slaves have a positive effect on the economy because the loss of capital in prodiving employment is not there giving you more profit.

Isn't that the argument from economics perspective

Im not im telling you that the morality is not an argument at all here because of the principles of economics being involved.

Free Labour

No wages

Owning a slave comes with the requirement of feeding them and housing them or just leaving them in the farms

Its an economic concern. You want your slaves to be fit right?

to work hard

you don't want them to be fit from the goodness of your heart

So are 1000 weak slaves against one master

How will they be likely to do less work?

so the fit one has n chance either Slen

better welfare can be two meals a day instead of one

and less sleep

yes

but we haven't even been able to come to an understanding regarding the morality of owning slaves as a positive argument

so how then would you want to move towards the communist ideology when the principles of relation and capital is what it's all about

don't you see this?

well that just shows your lack of understanding of communism, labour and capital.

Let me ask for the final time, have you read Kapital

you do realise that single book holds the principle of the relationship between capital and labour which gave rise to communism as an ideology right? I mean you don't dismiss something without never ever reading about it. It kinda makes it really dumb to argue for or against it

its just an objective point

I wasn;t. I just kept asking a few times if anyone has read communism as you guys kept attacking it

Yes now can we talk about why its never worked?

good talk

have you heard of direct democracy slen

It works in Switzerland

did you not know this

It isn't I know, what do you think communism is?

This is why you might want to read the book first before saying stupid things without understanding contex

Do you guys know how unions work?

it was because of unions you have sick pay, maternity leaves, voting rights, shorter working days.

The government were against it

Yes but you're not going to criticise the theory of relativity without first reading it are you? @Slen

so let me talk about the principle here which is what matters, when unions go on strike, its a last resort when talks have failed with the boards or whatever authority is there. They put their wages on the line to demand better conditions. Do you believe that is a valid case for getting better treatment and better wages?

Would you say the government has also failed to do a lot of things right?

Would you say the government has also failed to do a lot of things right?

So will you apply the same thought process to unions?

that the government fails to deliver on some things

But you believe communism has to be perfect

when did capitalism first start?

do you believe capitalism hasn't caused major humanitarian disasters?

What scale is that

Slen would it be impossible for you to apply that same logic to communism

or will you go with double standards

Capitalism has proven that it fails every single decade since the 1900s requiring massive government bailouts

those are just the facts

so would you say that since it's failed and requires government bailouts that it could validate a enquiry into a system that doesn't rely on these bailouts that are constantly needed?

Now about that figure

Im assuming its from the black book which was initially at 100 million

but now its 200 million

Are you going to justify capitalism and the millions of deaths its caused, the trillions its wasted on fake wars, the billions spent on propping up dictators and enforcing starvation through world bank policies and IMF policies? The loans and debt crisis and the financial crash all by the way are well documented. Are you going to justify them?

what about haiti?

Do you know that the US took Cuba from Spain without paying the debt that was owed to Spain? Then the militant dictatorship and the installation of Batista by the US?

Are you going to deny these facts?

then the embargo when castro was elected?

America has done lots of bads and continues to do so

hence the SCO

hence Russia

hence the EU

Do you guys believe in the double standard of the US?

The EU was created by the US to create an export oriented economy

read about the bretton woods system

post world war 2

because of the military and the infrastrucure in Germany

The french didn't have the infrastructure that the germans had thats why the Germans were bankrolled by the US

the french didn't want to be a part of it initially

im here to talk about your double standards in your relation to capitalism failing multiple times but being okay but not if its communism

im giving you examples of policies and force used by the US with the help of world bank IMF and UN to bully countries to create an export oriented economy

the EU, sanctions to Russia China etc

> But at least dont have to stand in a breadline when we have a recession
@Sizeable_lad

lol come on

obviously you are not correct

you think foodbanks don't exist in the US now?

you think people don't stand in lines to get basic needs met through charities?

Do you think wages are over the inflation in the US?

based on government bailouts

its a really pathetic and weak argument

but like i said till you read Kapital you will keep repeating these one liners. which works great in ensuring a confirmation bias but fall apart when you read it