and those costs were too high

those costs would have been avoided if Lenin was leader

even Trotsky would have been a better choice

and Lenin specifically was against Stalin

out of rashness

we know how the party criticized stalin afterwards

and how they applauded Khruschev's bitter criticisms of him

the communist leaders were heavily against Lenin's NEP

that may be why

Stalin was particularly critical of it

they lacked the patience

we should examine why Stalin was supported

and in my belief it is because, like many other communist leaders, he wanted to rush socialism

his plan cost too many lives

let me ask you, if lenin had been alive and in power, would they have been lost?

and perhaps, in your opinion, may the soviet union still exist?

Lenin understood that there had to be temporary compromise with capitalism

and he cannot be called a capitalist pig after all he had done

others were too impatient

examine the costs of their impatience

It is if you want to minimize collateral damage

then this is a disagreement based on ethics

I, for one, do not support experimentation on my fellow countrymen

and each of their lives is important

they are not mutually exclusive

usually this is said on the basis that you would not be apart of the collateral damage

opinions would quickly change, otherwise

since when was the left selfish?

on the condition that you are not at the other end of the gun barrel?

if you want the proletariat to have better lives, then you should seek to minimize casualties so that more can enjoy those better lives

I am curious. What do you think should be done about non-proletariat?

they were born in the wrong place, in a wrong social position, and thus they must be killed?

no bloodless work around?

How will you destroy them?

In what way?

and how do you plan on doing that?

I am wondering, what are some critiques you have of many countries in the EU

for example, Germany

short work hours, high productivity, low unemployment rate

guaranteed social necessities

even homeless are given shelters, food, healthcare

4 weeks paid vacation time, carried over to the next year if unused

What were some complaints?

Did they have to struggle to survive? How long did they work each week?

I believe consumption rate in Germany has been increasing because of low unemployment and rising wages

I would say out of all countries in the EU, Germany has been the success story

https://www.ft.com/content/cc7c0aca-baa4-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb

there has also been low inflation recently

I think a big reason fellow Americans do not want to adopt more comprehensive social programs is from a belief that they have nothing to gain from them

that they would be paying more in tax for nothing in return

But a step that can easily fit in the American cultural message is providing better opportunities for social mobility for poor people in the context of the american dream

because right now people who grow up in poverty often end up making less than their parents

in the current stage of events in America, if you are too radical it will backfire on you

@Deleted User If someone wants change in America, they must speak within cultural contexts

or they will be belittled

being too radical, right wing or left wing, is political suicide

revolution will not happen in America unless something very bad happens

worse than the great depression

and even then you have to wonder

will people respond with the far left wing or the far right wing?

Marx and Engels lived in a time period where their countries had children losing their arms in endless hours of factory work for little gain

America is not like that, so something very bad will have to happen

not in rural areas

roughyl 72% of the country

you underestimate the amount of distrust with socialism in the states

Yes, urban areas are becoming more populated than rural areas, and perhaps these regions will be more open to socialism in the future, but they can also look the other way

to the far right, and they already are

Americans have already been swallowing nativist propaganda

a revolution in Russia was possible because everyone hated the form of government

well

obviously not everyone

but you get the idea

but they still had shit lives

and therefore were open to revolution

especially against their evil lords and the tsar

who permits these lords

that level of hatred simply does not exist in the US right now

baby boomers were also very supportive of socialism

we had a lot of protests and movements

mid to late 20th century united states

I think the fact that Bernie Sanders almost secured the nominee for the democrats is a good sign of that

I've always supported a return to a more New Deal Democracy that the Democratic party was known for in the past

right now it's a party of neoliberals

You don't believe socialism can ever come democratically?

If there's enough public support, it'll happen regardless of what political elites think

Of course, no one is against that

and worker conditions and reduction in the disparity of income do happen under New Deal Democracy

I believe the socialist argument is that social democracy would always eventually turn into neoliberalism?

Many americans don't like socialism because they feel they are only responsible for themselves and their families

If you can convince me that socialism is capable of being accepted by americans in the future, maybe my opinions would change

there will just have to be more reform every once in a while then

Public consensus is more powerful than any bourgeois

The EU will never be able to take away the social benefits they give

attempting to do so would cost any politician their political influence

likewise in America, any politician trying to repeal the ACC would be ruined

when the people experience a better society, they will never give it up

I do not think the ACC will ever be repealed

No politician would be able to do it without costing his or her political influence

and they need to be wary about elections every few years

yet even the Tories cannot remove the basics of the NHS