`and ive seen opposite` as have I

same logic applies to a class room

same thing

order can only be enforced through violence

Lots of anarchists and libertarians essentially believe in the idea of the "better angels of our nature"

no

That there truly is a real moral sentiment in humans

But there isn't

order can happen automatically

We're just animals

`order can happen automatically`

what

yeah

people self organize all the time

you see it in tons of disaster scenarios for example

Spontaneous order does exist

do you know what automatically means?

That's true

earthquakes, tsunamis,

instead of chaos and anarchy, people help each other

true or false

Some people do

exactly

it happens

And some don't

doesnt matter how many times

Some become more violent

🆙 | **Sanatna leveled up!**

it happens

if he means self organizations thats just coupling of people to improve their competitive collective advantage

Some use the opportunity to rob others or to commit violence

so this statement "literally every interaction you have in a civilization requires it" is proven false

it isnt automatically

Absolutely not

did someone tell them to?

@Deleted User okay please tell me this

But what about all the crimes that happen during disasters

if a disaster happens

i didnt say crimes dont happen

and people self organize

see the issue?

what happens if i go against that organizations

you made an absolute statement, which means only one exception was requires to disprove it

i dont think you understand this?

i dont think you understand

do you have a mic?

yeah i do

no i understand because this argument is had every week in political discords and always ends in the guy assumes violence isnt necessary loses

so?

like hell, even Karl Marx advocated a militia

again, basing argument on precedence

can you get in voice?

sure

okay

Precedent is a great way to establish an argument

anyone else willing to join?

One example does not prove something true

I can also list plenty of examples of disasters which spawned crime

Not all people are actually violent, but there is a portion of the population which will behave in anti-social ways

The threat of violence isn't necessary in family and friendships but is necessary to bring together peoples who have no natural connection

Oh, joy

uhh can i go back to text?

yeah, my folks are complaining

its 2:am in the night

oh okay fair enough?

hahahaha

yeah sure

yup

Alright

My mic is broken

But like Lyoko my folks and sister are asleep and it's a small house, so I can't go on my phone

well it wouldnt be a case where people are forced out of labour

its a case where people have the choice to just not work

like something thats tantamount to the matrix, would it even be by definition a civilization?

@Loopy @Hamtaro Get in vc

@Lux💜

but why couldnt a computer controlled utopia be a society?

it could be a society

lmao why is lux jailed

she wanted to keep the tag

lewd

Wasn't the last episode just a clip show

IIRC

@Deleted User it could be considered a society but not a civilization i would argue

why not?

It would basically lack all the defining traits

such as?

What a nice story

@Deleted User
Defining traits of civilization
An organized body of governance
Laws or edicts
Surplus of food production
Labor specialization
Record keeping
Social structure and traditions
Literature, Art and Architecture
Common Infrastructure

No, finish

@Persephone ?

I want to hear the rest of this

I will compel you with violence to tell me

As we do in a civilized order

@Lux💜 your name came up so I pinged you to be fair

Someone brought up having an argument with a transgender in politics

so you were pinged by her

@Persephone youre wording shit in the worse possible way on purpose

youre