What's an up?

Russia: *gets invaded out of nowhere with no plans or leadership and survives*
France: *gets invaded after careful planning and massive defensive initiatives, falls in a month*

france built a massive fuck-off wall to repel invasion

...but didn’t think about fortifying much up to the Channel.

Hell, they even left the Ardennes practically undefended.

Gave the Jerries a fuckin’ Welcome Mat to France there.

quand chui venu je savais qu'il y aller avoir des connerie sur hitler, mais pas à ce point, mon dieu pas à ce point

Je mappele bueno

@DA GOMMIE JOO thats why I admire russia for that reason.

True anti imperialist badasses

Pity they fucked themselves over

with the current state of russia and the ussr.

Although I kind of like Putin aswell as dislike him.

I guess Im neutral on him for the most part.

Que de la merde se serveur j'ai perdu mon temps fucking time

baguette héhé

anyone here like baudrillard

clouscard ftw

@nagarjuna baudrillard is based

damn dude glad to hear it. clouscard seems legit you just pointed him out to me

I'd recommend reading *The Capitalism of Seduction* if you haven't, it's his one work of note

A critique of the neoliberal system born from Mai 68

that's pretty chill dude, as you know JB wrote about seduction

sounds like there is an OG here

this is a nice little intro

https://institutenr.org/2017/08/03/michel-clouscard-the-capitalism-of-seduction-rebellion-46-february-2011/

oh cool. can you find TCoS online? I had trouble

Idk

It's in 2 volumes

word. oh wow

ok i found it

but

do you understand french

hahaha

no sir

I should I guess, only german

rip

clouscard is really not known at all

There might be an english translation, but a free pdf is pushing it

word ill check the libraries

cheers

five sure. also check out comments on society of the spectacle if you haven't yet I love that one

Situationism feels a lot like intellectual jerk-off to me

And it also contributed to the conversion of pre-1970s capitalism into global liberalism

thats definitely not wrong, but I think the comments are way better than the original book

and from the original, I love the phrase on page one: "the liar has lied to himself" very strong image to me

I like to compare it to descartes evil demon, and i think-> instead of thinking the demon is tricking you, what if you are the demon, tricking yourself?

I love this idea so much

Well, actually, I found an article Clouscard wrote on Baudrillard

French though

http://clouscard-alerte.org/index.php/2016/12/12/baudrillard-le-dernier-homme-qui-cligne-de-loeil-michel-clouscard-1988/

Je mappele gay

Wait no

@nagarjuna Even if that article is mostly yet another critique of Baudrillard

@DOLBATIC that looks awesome I'm just an insufferable JB sycophant because I haven't read more haha. His writing is super contradictory so the parts I like are contradicted by other parts haha. My aim isn't to rep him so much as bring him up because that's where my thoughts are, wanna move forward

I see JB kind of in the skeptical tradition, which I really enjoy. The problem of how to apply skepticism politically is the huge problem but one I want to confront

He's seeing Baudrillard as the quintessence of modern bourgeois thought, which he claims no longer ignores class struggle (as in the case of Valéry and Alain) but simply recuses it without refuting it

"hypocritical innocence"

Baudrillard, to him, is a good example of the transition of the Zeitgeist ever since the 1968 "Libération"

Which would be a gnoseological regression

His main point is that Sartre, who accepts class struggle but encloses it into intellectual bourgeois leftism, is at the source of this transition

Prioiritizing the transcendental ego over class struggle

Yes I think that's a common view. Baudrillard visited Japan one time and people there said "we don't need you anymore because your thought is just how things are now"

I would be interested to see if he defends his concept of class struggle

The second stepof that transition is then structuralism which goes around the dialectical process of history

Third step of the pretense of Marxism to actually combat dialectical materialism: the infamous Freudo-Marxists (e.g. Marcuse), the fusion of two dogmatic deviations, the repressive State and the father figure

Thus, the middle classes (those of capitalist State monopolization) can still only fight dialectical materialism *in the name of Marxism and knowledge*

Claiming to be repressed by the old bourgeoisie, these new classes give birth to "the market of desire"

It is now possible to liquidate Marxism and replace with bourgeois intellectual identitarian leftism, through the fourth step of this process: the appearance of the "new philosophers"

Now it is no longer its deviations but Marxism itself which is condemned

Liberalism has succeeded in equating Marxism and fascism

Now Baudrillard, the child of this intellectual evolution, comes into play

Baudrillard's scepticism is seen by Clouscard as a worldly practice without end

Behind the denunciation of seduction, there is simply profound assent

This philosophical renouncement expresses the victory of the new middle classes, in the new Zeitgeist of the cultural worldly "leftist"

A "bon chic bon genre" thought which leads to stagnation

I'm curious how this plays in the marxs idea that capitalism leads to communism. I mean negating capitalism is the same as completing the project of capitalism for Marx, no?

And then what is clouscard saying we should be doing, what does class struggle look like in these updated conditions? I'll read both those articles tho five sure

His ideas for action are explained at the end of the first link i sent you

The *praxis* must be adapted to the new modalities of capitalism (avoiding both Classical Marxist orthodoxy and the reformism adopted by the PCF in the late 20th c.)

Reformism being the transition into social democracy (and frankly, liberalism) the PCF engaged into, following the PS

Capitalism, ironically, by liberalizing, has become more totalitarian, it is therefore necessary for class consciousness to be augmented by consciousness of this neoliberal new form of capitalism

So I read the two articles, translated the one on Baudrillard. Found a way to translate PDFs also but not large ones, sad face. I guess I can split it into sections

I do agree with the section of the first piece where it is written that Clouscard thinks we need "collective destiny," I think this is a very good starting point

It's interesting how he thinks the national is now important to defend when it's being overcome by transnational capitalism. I can see that, I do agree that a good transnational movement will likely work its way through the various nations (although it working through other nations will be something that will be recognized within each national process)

Still, his positive program is not very clear, probably it is outlined in his book

i.e. his idea of class struggle is not clarified, it's clear he wants to update Marx in some ways and remain faithful in others, but it's not specific about which parts to leave and which to take

How did you translate?

Google translate

the book pdf is too big though, but I got the article about Baudrillard

I can also read the french wikipedia page on clouscard, it's longer than the one in english

Yikes

haha

One idea I do have is whether Clouscard would think it important to point out how intelligence agencies have dominated society. Baudrillard doesn't talk about stuff like that but I think it's very important. Although there's also the question of how exactly the civilian gov't, military (and intel), and corporations interact, that could be the kind of thing Clouscard means by understanding the front of class struggle today

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