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2018-12-15 08:10:56 UTC

if you anger god

2018-12-15 08:10:57 UTC

YES.

2018-12-15 08:11:04 UTC

do you think hes gonna let you in heaven just like that? no

2018-12-15 08:11:09 UTC

That's what we've been trying to say this whole time

2018-12-15 08:11:16 UTC

That's what we mean by works

2018-12-15 08:11:34 UTC

just be a good person, you know how to be one by doing whats right in your heart

2018-12-15 08:12:03 UTC

if youre doing evil stuff like cheating, youre going to get one on one with god in life

2018-12-15 08:12:13 UTC

A man of faith who does evil, by his evil deeds is failing to live according to that faith

2018-12-15 08:12:34 UTC

yes but i say to you, he who does evil has never truly believed

2018-12-15 08:12:39 UTC

for if he did, he wouldnt have done that evil

2018-12-15 08:13:04 UTC

dont you think it hurts god if you hurt another human being, by cheating for example?

2018-12-15 08:13:13 UTC

dont you know god is love

2018-12-15 08:13:28 UTC

god is a living god

2018-12-15 08:13:33 UTC

In other words there are certain things which are objectively right and wrong, and God calls us to live in a certain way. To follow him we must obey his commandments

2018-12-15 08:13:47 UTC

to follow him we must be good persons

2018-12-15 08:13:53 UTC

but be honest, thats just common sense too

2018-12-15 08:14:00 UTC

to say otherwise is wicked

2018-12-15 08:14:10 UTC

But the fetish for Faith alone misses the point

2018-12-15 08:14:18 UTC

no it does not

2018-12-15 08:14:28 UTC

because if you believe in a god that knows right from wrong

2018-12-15 08:14:35 UTC

and you want to join him after death

2018-12-15 08:14:36 UTC

People truly believe that one's actions don't matter

2018-12-15 08:14:38 UTC

you dont do bad stuff

2018-12-15 08:14:42 UTC

thats bad

2018-12-15 08:14:46 UTC

That you will automatically be forgiven

2018-12-15 08:14:48 UTC

read the last verse

2018-12-15 08:14:52 UTC

i sent

2018-12-15 08:14:55 UTC

its not true

2018-12-15 08:14:56 UTC

After all they are "saved"

2018-12-15 08:15:14 UTC

the things that are obviously wrong to us, like cheating, are just as obviously wrong to god

2018-12-15 08:15:26 UTC

thats why i refer to the law that is written in our hearts, of which the bible speaks of

2018-12-15 08:15:34 UTC

I don't believe that it's all obvious

2018-12-15 08:15:41 UTC

well thats silly

2018-12-15 08:16:00 UTC

There are many people from many walks of life. Some will be surprised

2018-12-15 08:16:39 UTC

whats the point of a relationship if you cheat?

2018-12-15 08:16:45 UTC

it defeats the purpose

2018-12-15 08:16:45 UTC

Hell in the old days there were pagan converts to the early church who had multiple wives and viewed it as normal to worship gods and demons

2018-12-15 08:16:57 UTC

Of course Paul had to explain

2018-12-15 08:17:02 UTC

dont you think god interfered in those lives

2018-12-15 08:17:09 UTC

X is bad. Y is good

2018-12-15 08:17:10 UTC

addressed their souls

2018-12-15 08:17:23 UTC

addressed them after death

2018-12-15 08:17:37 UTC

god is a living god

2018-12-15 08:17:43 UTC

Yes but they were ignorant. They required the instruction of a servant of God appointed to this task

2018-12-15 08:17:53 UTC

deep down

2018-12-15 08:17:58 UTC

even those men knew right from wrong

2018-12-15 08:18:03 UTC

for the law is written in our hearts

2018-12-15 08:18:07 UTC

I think they were ignorant of many details

2018-12-15 08:18:15 UTC

they just ignored their hearts

2018-12-15 08:18:28 UTC

those thad did wrong

2018-12-15 08:18:30 UTC

not all were wrong

2018-12-15 08:18:33 UTC

at all

2018-12-15 08:18:39 UTC

you had big societies

2018-12-15 08:18:44 UTC

not all were evil

2018-12-15 08:18:52 UTC

What about a mentally retarded man?

2018-12-15 08:19:14 UTC

Can he truly be expected to find morality obvious

2018-12-15 08:19:31 UTC

well yes and most do

2018-12-15 08:19:32 UTC

Or does he require instruction

2018-12-15 08:19:34 UTC

and if not, god knows

2018-12-15 08:19:49 UTC

you should be teachers

2018-12-15 08:19:51 UTC

the bible says

2018-12-15 08:19:55 UTC

so you can teach

2018-12-15 08:20:59 UTC

I believe living a Christian Life is NOT obvious, which is why we have the Bible, prayer, a community of Christians, elders, etc.

2018-12-15 08:21:03 UTC

jesus will tell people

2018-12-15 08:21:10 UTC

go away from me i have never known you

2018-12-15 08:21:14 UTC

those that say they believe in god

2018-12-15 08:21:14 UTC

We enter it ignorant and must learn

2018-12-15 08:21:17 UTC

yet just do evil stuff

2018-12-15 08:21:21 UTC

to them he will say

2018-12-15 08:21:27 UTC

i have never known you

2018-12-15 08:21:37 UTC

thereby pointing out that they did not truly believe at all

2018-12-15 08:22:11 UTC

a christian life means being a good person. and yes, the bible is god's word. the bible says to give your life for your friend is an expression of the greatest love

2018-12-15 08:22:16 UTC

the bible also says the letter kills

2018-12-15 08:22:34 UTC

so to read the bible to save another person or teach him is to give your life

2018-12-15 08:22:38 UTC

At this point I am convinced that the debate is based solely on different ways of communicating the same thing

2018-12-15 08:22:51 UTC

the only thing im pointing out is

2018-12-15 08:23:04 UTC

do not rely on your works thinking you will be saved because of them

2018-12-15 08:23:09 UTC

rely on your faith

2018-12-15 08:23:23 UTC

You say faith alone, I say faith without works is dead, but we both believe that a man of faith must live his faith out

2018-12-15 08:23:23 UTC

god does not love boasters

2018-12-15 08:23:37 UTC

well he does love them

2018-12-15 08:23:42 UTC

but he isnt satisfied with them

2018-12-15 08:24:24 UTC

yes but even if one is not a believer, one is already a good person most of the time

2018-12-15 08:24:30 UTC

so works isnt really that much of an issue

2018-12-15 08:24:33 UTC

just be a good person

2018-12-15 08:24:38 UTC

The point you're getting at is without God's freely given offer of salvation to us, we would fall short

2018-12-15 08:24:55 UTC

yes

2018-12-15 08:24:58 UTC

all glory to christ

2018-12-15 08:25:00 UTC

all glory to god

2018-12-15 08:25:01 UTC

So the source of our hope is God

2018-12-15 08:25:04 UTC

yes

2018-12-15 08:25:09 UTC

Well duh

2018-12-15 08:25:20 UTC

if you were to present to him and say

2018-12-15 08:25:27 UTC

i have helped 50 people, i have done this and i have done that

2018-12-15 08:25:36 UTC

he will probably say something like, you have fallen hort

2018-12-15 08:25:38 UTC

short*

2018-12-15 08:25:44 UTC

if this is how you present yourself to me

2018-12-15 08:25:48 UTC

for why didnt you have faith?

2018-12-15 08:25:59 UTC

but

2018-12-15 08:26:02 UTC

he wont throw that person into hell

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