if you anger god

YES.

do you think hes gonna let you in heaven just like that? no

That's what we've been trying to say this whole time

That's what we mean by works

just be a good person, you know how to be one by doing whats right in your heart

if youre doing evil stuff like cheating, youre going to get one on one with god in life

A man of faith who does evil, by his evil deeds is failing to live according to that faith

yes but i say to you, he who does evil has never truly believed

for if he did, he wouldnt have done that evil

dont you think it hurts god if you hurt another human being, by cheating for example?

dont you know god is love

god is a living god

In other words there are certain things which are objectively right and wrong, and God calls us to live in a certain way. To follow him we must obey his commandments

to follow him we must be good persons

but be honest, thats just common sense too

to say otherwise is wicked

But the fetish for Faith alone misses the point

no it does not

because if you believe in a god that knows right from wrong

and you want to join him after death

People truly believe that one's actions don't matter

you dont do bad stuff

thats bad

That you will automatically be forgiven

read the last verse

i sent

its not true

After all they are "saved"

the things that are obviously wrong to us, like cheating, are just as obviously wrong to god

thats why i refer to the law that is written in our hearts, of which the bible speaks of

I don't believe that it's all obvious

well thats silly

There are many people from many walks of life. Some will be surprised

whats the point of a relationship if you cheat?

it defeats the purpose

Hell in the old days there were pagan converts to the early church who had multiple wives and viewed it as normal to worship gods and demons

Of course Paul had to explain

dont you think god interfered in those lives

X is bad. Y is good

addressed their souls

addressed them after death

god is a living god

Yes but they were ignorant. They required the instruction of a servant of God appointed to this task

deep down

even those men knew right from wrong

for the law is written in our hearts

I think they were ignorant of many details

they just ignored their hearts

those thad did wrong

not all were wrong

at all

you had big societies

not all were evil

What about a mentally retarded man?

Can he truly be expected to find morality obvious

well yes and most do

Or does he require instruction

and if not, god knows

you should be teachers

the bible says

so you can teach

I believe living a Christian Life is NOT obvious, which is why we have the Bible, prayer, a community of Christians, elders, etc.

jesus will tell people

go away from me i have never known you

those that say they believe in god

We enter it ignorant and must learn

yet just do evil stuff

to them he will say

i have never known you

thereby pointing out that they did not truly believe at all

a christian life means being a good person. and yes, the bible is god's word. the bible says to give your life for your friend is an expression of the greatest love

the bible also says the letter kills

so to read the bible to save another person or teach him is to give your life

At this point I am convinced that the debate is based solely on different ways of communicating the same thing

the only thing im pointing out is

do not rely on your works thinking you will be saved because of them

rely on your faith

You say faith alone, I say faith without works is dead, but we both believe that a man of faith must live his faith out

god does not love boasters

well he does love them

but he isnt satisfied with them

yes but even if one is not a believer, one is already a good person most of the time

so works isnt really that much of an issue

just be a good person

The point you're getting at is without God's freely given offer of salvation to us, we would fall short

yes

all glory to christ

all glory to god

So the source of our hope is God

yes

Well duh

if you were to present to him and say

i have helped 50 people, i have done this and i have done that

he will probably say something like, you have fallen hort

short*

if this is how you present yourself to me

for why didnt you have faith?

but

he wont throw that person into hell