Yes @Oboe

current ~~pope~~

Example

Arius

Yes, many

Men are fallible

Men are fallible but the Holy Spirit is not

And these people having the lineage to the apostles should be justified through their authority to define doctrine?

They can define doctrine in a very limited sense.

*very* limited

But if they used that authority to contradict scripture is nullified?

Can anyone define doctrine who isnt of the historical lineage?

Not really, like they can, but it wouldn't be as reliable

Of course we have layman biblical scholars and everything

They can’t contradict any of three things. A. Sacred Scripture B. Sacred Tradition C. Sacred Magisterium

But that's not the same as the teaching authority of the Church defining a doctrine

Now, I know this may be a bit difficult but do you have any sources that proves absolutely that either an apostle or a disciple of an apostle believed in doctrine such as infant baptism, the veneration of saints, or a literal interpretation of the bread and blood?

Not necessary

Is that a no?

Did I say no?

You didn't give a direct answer

I was asking if you had it

brb

back

My answer is that it’s not relevant. I can provide sources that the college of bishops, as the direct successors to the apostles, have defined dogmatically the real presence of the Eucharist. And have authorized and recommended both infant baptism and veneration of saints

My issue is whether we confirm that these traditions are truly apostolic

I answer yes

And what source would you cite?

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html#irenaeus

Veneration of saints wasn’t because *there weren’t any at the time*

Irenaeus knew John the Apostle and also met I think James the Greater

Oh btw

Regardless of view

I think we can appreciate this

inb4 “muh female minister of communion”

muh female minister of communion

It’s an angel, fuck off

You wouldn't happen to have something that documents Irenaeus and John's relations would you?

OOF, I'm sorry, no, Irenaeus was Polycarp's student and *Polycarp* knew John

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103311.htm

He mentions that in these two

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/irenaeus-saint

Oh Spy

So

I have a study bible coming in the mail today 😎

Thank you

Silly Phil, Catholics don't read the *Bible*!!!

JK, that's great! 😃

I was torn between didache and ignatius

The Didache isn't that long tbh

Neither is my understanding of scripture Yeet

If I ever get another, ignatius or Navarre is what imma do

<@&588707615643795456> Daily Question 🔖

- What is your view on purgatory? What happens immediately after our death?

After death, you are judged (your *particular judgement*) and most of those destined for Heaven will be purged.

Wdym by the second half of that sentence

I don't believe in purgatory

If you're destroyed for heaven... That means the end result of u in heaven

@GHOST aye me neither

Purged of their sins, that is, not annihilated from existence.

Its either heaven or hell, no in between

@GHOST well I'm fairly certain no one goes to hell

@Deleted User.........

Hell and lake of fire are separate places this is iterated multiple times Im fairly certain

The Bible mentions that *hell will be thrown into the lake of fire*

But muh weeping and nashing of teeth ?

Hell itself probably isn't on fire, that depiction of hell is fairly modern coming from Dante's inferno

@GHOST I don't remember reading that, but sure

You're probably sent to lake of fire, not hell

Really ?

Because lake of fire is the end place

Not hell

Hell is thrown into lake of fire

The lake of fire is where satan will be held at the end of days

As far as I know, "hell" is the dark place where souls destined for damnation await until the day of final judgement.

For sinners that is

@GHOST and where all non-believers go

And everyone who isn't in heaven really

Yeah basically

Once the new heaven and new earth are made that is where the saved shall live and the lake of fire is where the damned shall go

Iirc

I wonder if those in heaven will be able to see the lake of fire

We call that limbo. The place of non-believers who lived good lives

But that’s not doctrine

Non believers who lived good lives get the same treatment as serial killers

The lake of fire

I highly doubt that

As far as I know there is no "in between" of heaven and lake of fire once the end times are complete

You're either in heaven, or in the lake of fire

Generally based on NDE's it seems we go to heaven, god doesnt seem to be wrathful at all

There *could* be a "limbo" temporarily until final judgment day, but at the end you're either burning or not

Basically this

because the Last Judgement is the last judgement

As far as I know, there’s 3 to 5 states you can be in. And I see no reason for that to change after the general judgement

Wdym 3 to 5 stages what

There are only 2

You're either in heaven

Or in the lake of fire

Heaven, purgatory, hell, and then maybe 1 or 2 limbos. I personally believe in 1 limbo

Is there any biblical text expressly mentioning Limbo

Well, all those in Purgatory at the end of time are purified and let out anyhow