#general (Discord ID: 463054787336732683) in Subverse, page 2937

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2019-01-29 17:25:34 UTC

again, more of a general observation but you can see, event at 1 year old, how kids will deal with environmental stimulus

2019-01-29 17:26:04 UTC

The ratio of nature to nurture is a hotly debated topic in biology

2019-01-29 17:26:07 UTC

I think the ratio could be different for different people. I'm thinking on average is a 60/40 or 70/30 split

2019-01-29 17:26:20 UTC

And psychology

2019-01-29 17:26:39 UTC

I dont know if there is a general consensus

2019-01-29 17:26:50 UTC

Neuroscience cant tell us yet

2019-01-29 17:27:04 UTC

having worked in psycho-social oncology, there is SOOOO much guess work going on in psychology today

2019-01-29 17:27:29 UTC

And wouldn't certain circumstances cause one to shift more in one direction? An abusive parent or living in a communist society for example.

2019-01-29 17:27:47 UTC

that's why I added stimulus of a certain magnitude

2019-01-29 17:27:55 UTC

like reinstalling the operating system

2019-01-29 17:28:20 UTC

Its just a bit alarming when you realize most of who you are and what you think about is completely out of your control and a lot was decided before you were born

2019-01-29 17:28:36 UTC

a lot of people can't accept that

2019-01-29 17:28:49 UTC

it keeps me up at night

2019-01-29 17:28:59 UTC

Existential dread

2019-01-29 17:29:33 UTC

I know i have a lot of habbits my parents have

2019-01-29 17:29:33 UTC

Some of us tried to rebel and act differently than our parents, but we may be more like one or the other or even both of them than we care to admit.

2019-01-29 17:29:50 UTC

I think once you can make certain acceptances, you can actually use it to your advantage

2019-01-29 17:30:11 UTC

Or maybe even a great grandparent

2019-01-29 17:30:32 UTC

I know I am the way I am and most likely, that isn't going to change barring some radical event. So instead, I try and focus on analyzing why I behave the way I do and how I react and adjust my environment accordingly

2019-01-29 17:30:52 UTC

I try to do thar

2019-01-29 17:30:58 UTC

It really helped me deal with crippling insomnia

2019-01-29 17:31:05 UTC

But i overthink and over worry about everything

2019-01-29 17:31:10 UTC

<-- I feel you

2019-01-29 17:31:23 UTC

What if im unable to avoid the sins of my father

2019-01-29 17:31:31 UTC

That they are inevitable

2019-01-29 17:31:31 UTC

Add me to the overthibk group as well

2019-01-29 17:31:50 UTC

I spend more time in my head than I do living in the moment.

2019-01-29 17:31:58 UTC

Well actually sins of my mother

2019-01-29 17:32:06 UTC

oh, I hate the sins of my father and I hate more that I started down that path myself without realizing it.

2019-01-29 17:34:16 UTC

this is going to sound really dumb, but for me, attending Church really helped. I'm REALLY not saying it's for everyone, but making myself beholden to a group greater than myself, even voluntarily, has helped me deal on a day to day

2019-01-29 17:34:56 UTC

guess the bias. Which site is conservative and which is a liberal based on their headline of the same story?

‘Empire’ cast member alleges he was attacked in Chicago

By MAGA Supporters

2019-01-29 17:35:05 UTC

Just... lol...

2019-01-29 17:35:11 UTC

You're getting structure in your life, a higher purpose if you will.

2019-01-29 17:35:18 UTC

Nothing wrong with that

2019-01-29 17:35:19 UTC

yes, that's it exactly

2019-01-29 17:35:32 UTC

it doesn't have to be Church

2019-01-29 17:35:46 UTC

just structure, responsibility, support, etc

2019-01-29 17:36:00 UTC

I need responsibility in my life

2019-01-29 17:36:49 UTC

I think everyone does

2019-01-29 17:37:17 UTC

But only as much as they can handle; maybe a tad more for growth. Otherwise you risk breaking them

2019-01-29 17:37:52 UTC

I went to a private Catholic Church from.1st grade & all through high school. There's nothing wrong with religion IMO since I truly think that most of them are giving people a purpose in life per se. I study Stoicism as a "middle ground" for religion since I too feel like I need a purpose.

2019-01-29 17:38:09 UTC

I don't think I articulated my thoughts that well there lol

2019-01-29 17:40:08 UTC

haha no worries

2019-01-29 17:40:16 UTC

Religion in and of itself isn't bad. Religious extremism is the bad one.

2019-01-29 17:40:35 UTC


2019-01-29 17:40:55 UTC


2019-01-29 17:41:12 UTC

That was the ideology that a lot of people hated back in the day

2019-01-29 17:43:08 UTC

>believing things objectively false isnt bad
Big think. But im too nauseous to get into that debate

2019-01-29 17:45:51 UTC

Depends on how you view religions.

2019-01-29 17:46:32 UTC


2019-01-29 17:46:33 UTC


2019-01-29 17:46:48 UTC

Nah it isn't my cup of tea but I respect it

2019-01-29 17:47:25 UTC

Reminds me of Hogfather: You have to start out learning to believe the little lies...so you can believe the big ones

2019-01-29 17:47:40 UTC

Surprisingly enough Nietzsche actually taught me how to respect Religion

2019-01-29 17:48:03 UTC

I can see that

2019-01-29 17:48:16 UTC

In his book beyond good and evil

2019-01-29 17:48:21 UTC

Im trying to remember the quote

2019-01-29 17:48:34 UTC

I have the book on my desk, I should pull it up.

2019-01-29 17:49:08 UTC

"The worth of an opinion is not how true it is, but the value it holds" or something like that

2019-01-29 17:49:16 UTC

Religion from a philosophical, societal and traditional standpoint can actually be rather unifying and centering for a lot of people. The problem is when people take it to either a dogmatic end or worse commit atrocities in the name of said Religion

2019-01-29 17:49:38 UTC

but that's any philosophy

2019-01-29 17:49:47 UTC

see social justice

2019-01-29 17:49:52 UTC

The problem is the majority of religious people aren't philosophers and do indeed take it to a dogmatic respect

2019-01-29 17:49:59 UTC

this is very true

2019-01-29 17:50:11 UTC

but as far as religious philosophers go, I see them intellectually as equals

2019-01-29 17:50:23 UTC

to any atheistic philosopher

2019-01-29 17:50:34 UTC

in terms of how much I respect them

2019-01-29 17:50:41 UTC

very open minded of you in 2019

2019-01-29 17:51:06 UTC

Thanks man, I'm still an atheist, but yea, religion definitely has its place imo

2019-01-29 17:51:11 UTC

except William Lane Craig

2019-01-29 17:51:24 UTC

no respect for that hack

2019-01-29 17:51:29 UTC

I was an Atheist/Agnostic up until about a year ago

2019-01-29 17:51:36 UTC
2019-01-29 17:51:43 UTC

Who the heck is that?

2019-01-29 17:51:49 UTC

So you know good and well that atheists can be just as bad as the dogmatism we see in religion

2019-01-29 17:52:01 UTC

I think they annoy me more tbh lol

2019-01-29 17:52:18 UTC

William Lane Craig is a professional Christian apologist/debater/Gish galloper

2019-01-29 17:52:37 UTC

You can still learn quite a bit of real philosophy from tearing apart WLC.

2019-01-29 17:52:39 UTC

he's into Cosmology (not the hairdresser stuff)

2019-01-29 17:52:49 UTC

Cosmetology lol

2019-01-29 17:52:54 UTC

I get those confused too

2019-01-29 17:52:59 UTC

he's about as kooky as it comes

2019-01-29 17:53:09 UTC

Although i'm very much annoyed with people who treat science like the gospel that can't be changed.

2019-01-29 17:53:41 UTC

well, it's the same thing. They're dogmatic about it

2019-01-29 17:53:43 UTC

It might as well be the cosmetological argument for God.

2019-01-29 17:53:48 UTC

yeah William Lane Craig tends to have debates with scientists rather than with atheist Bible scholars

2019-01-29 17:54:36 UTC

the cosmetological argument for God...I guess that would be the fine-tuning argument

2019-01-29 17:54:40 UTC

Is he a televangelist or some shit?

2019-01-29 17:55:15 UTC

no he's a professor

2019-01-29 17:55:34 UTC

I just wound up being areligious, I was an atheist, then an agnostic, then I just stopped caring at all about the subject from a spiritual view.

2019-01-29 17:57:07 UTC


2019-01-29 17:57:08 UTC
2019-01-29 17:57:11 UTC

there's a term that I liked. It was Ignostic I think it was.

Basically it's this: Can the existence of God be tested for positively or negatively? No. Then the question is irrelevant move on

2019-01-29 17:57:30 UTC

Lol I like it

2019-01-29 17:57:31 UTC

I actually read a paper from a friend of mine discussing the dogmatism of social justice

2019-01-29 17:57:49 UTC

It is very dogmatic

2019-01-29 17:57:56 UTC

Ohhhh yeah

2019-01-29 17:58:05 UTC

social justice is even worse

2019-01-29 17:58:14 UTC

He made the case that when you try to eradicate religion from society, it comes back in manifestations you wouldn't expect. I.E. social justice. I laid in bed thinking about that for hours last night.

2019-01-29 17:58:18 UTC

Hence why sjws label me a bad person for not believing the gospel

2019-01-29 17:58:20 UTC

because it has the one-two punch of original sin *and* no redemption path

2019-01-29 17:58:41 UTC

There is one

2019-01-29 17:58:45 UTC

It is very much dogmatic and filled with people trying to get more offended more than the other nowadays.

2019-01-29 17:58:54 UTC

Become intersectional

2019-01-29 17:58:54 UTC

What do you guys think of that claim though?

2019-01-29 17:59:08 UTC

I had this exact conversation with a group recently. The removal of religion in such a haphazard manner has left a philosophical hole in our society

2019-01-29 17:59:19 UTC

Did it?

2019-01-29 17:59:20 UTC

but we didn't do anything to replace it with anything good

2019-01-29 17:59:29 UTC

Exactly man

2019-01-29 17:59:35 UTC

so people fill it with whatever nonsense they can glom onto

2019-01-29 17:59:47 UTC

Like maybe until mankind becomes evolved enough, we need religion to prevent that kind of dogmatism from manifesting in other ideologies

2019-01-29 17:59:48 UTC

I have a lot of religion surrounding me I guess so I didn't notice

2019-01-29 17:59:54 UTC

So I guess that's why Indonesia doesn't have this kind of problem in terms of SJWs.

2019-01-29 18:00:09 UTC

That's fucking crazy to think about isn't it

2019-01-29 18:00:15 UTC

It's like ideological compromise or something

2019-01-29 18:00:30 UTC

(And also because communism is a felony here )

2019-01-29 18:00:32 UTC

Its not a compromise so much as a need

2019-01-29 18:00:50 UTC

People have to feel that they are part of something bigger than themselves according to the hirearchy of needs

2019-01-29 18:00:53 UTC

Well you're recognizing the need via compromise

2019-01-29 18:00:56 UTC

It's both

2019-01-29 18:01:09 UTC

not really. When you force change at a pace faster than society can naturally accept without making an effort to mitigate what you just did you wind up with this kind of thing

2019-01-29 18:01:25 UTC


2019-01-29 18:02:03 UTC

People are going to dogmatize something, it might as well be religion

2019-01-29 18:02:06 UTC

@Der Kommissar so is atheism though

2019-01-29 18:02:08 UTC

Forcing people to abandon religion is also morally wrong

2019-01-29 18:02:16 UTC

Eh, morals

2019-01-29 18:02:22 UTC


2019-01-29 18:02:28 UTC

Like societies tend to get more progressive as they age, but in the last twenty or so years, it's accelerated to the point that we're making progress faster than society at large can absorb

2019-01-29 18:02:33 UTC

I avoid moral arguments if necessary, those can get really abstract

2019-01-29 18:02:35 UTC

so things are getting weird

2019-01-29 18:02:44 UTC

like running down a steep hill at full speed

2019-01-29 18:02:50 UTC

*expressing* that you're an atheist can easily bring a five-year prison term

2019-01-29 18:03:11 UTC

at a certain point you're going to lose it and eat shit. Yes you're going fast and moving forward, but you also risk face planting it

2019-01-29 18:03:16 UTC

@yearspastmatter but you can write one of the many religions in the id card but never attend the written religion

2019-01-29 18:03:19 UTC

But yeah

2019-01-29 18:03:58 UTC

But yeah, the human condition is inherently flawed, so I'd say the most effective method would be to compromize with dogmatism rather than try to eradicate it

2019-01-29 18:04:02 UTC

Telling people that you're an atheist is also a felony in Indonesia

2019-01-29 18:04:16 UTC

Yeah, Atheists have been fucked with a ton

2019-01-29 18:04:20 UTC

but I try to avoid playing the victim card

2019-01-29 18:04:34 UTC

I have morals, but I agree with you @.Not Sean . I try to steer my arguments toward the logical vs the moral

2019-01-29 18:04:39 UTC


2019-01-29 18:04:57 UTC

Not gonna lie, I was bullied a ton for being an atheist in school

2019-01-29 18:05:04 UTC

@Der Kommissar really? damn, that's messed up

2019-01-29 18:05:05 UTC

but yeah, idk, trends are reversed

2019-01-29 18:05:06 UTC

Seems weird that Indonesia is almost 90% Sunni but it has such a huge metal scene

2019-01-29 18:05:10 UTC

now christians are getting bullied

2019-01-29 18:05:18 UTC

which isnt cool

2019-01-29 18:05:19 UTC

at all

2019-01-29 18:05:37 UTC

I guess that's a way of rebelling without being explicit about it

2019-01-29 18:06:18 UTC

Yeah man, music plays a huge role in ideological strife

2019-01-29 18:06:20 UTC

@AxiomOverride yeah. It's also written in the constitution and the preface of the law to uphold a religion.

2019-01-29 18:06:32 UTC

can't remember if it's the president of Indonesia or the mayor of Jakarta, but one of 'em is an outspoken metalhead

2019-01-29 18:06:46 UTC


2019-01-29 18:06:50 UTC

every kid with parents who watched the news never bothered me again after columbine

2019-01-29 18:06:52 UTC

That's pretty sick. In my studio, I've worked with a few eastern metal bands

2019-01-29 18:06:55 UTC

They love metal over there

2019-01-29 18:06:56 UTC

probably unrelated

2019-01-29 18:07:00 UTC

Former governor of Jakarta and current President of Indonesia

2019-01-29 18:07:16 UTC

Ugh...I was almost kicked out of school after Columbine

2019-01-29 18:07:25 UTC

Yeah... I got pat downs and everything

2019-01-29 18:07:37 UTC

I wore eyeliner, tripp pants and trench coats even before the shooting

2019-01-29 18:07:38 UTC

According to The Economist, Jokowi "has a penchant for loud rock music" and owned a bass guitar signed by Robert Trujillo of heavy metal band Metallica, that was confiscated by the anti-corruption commission, KPK.[155] He is also a fan of Lamb of God, Led Zeppelin and Napalm Death. On 2 November 2013, while he was the Governor of Jakarta, he was seen in the rock festival Rock in Solo in casual dress.[156] In November 2017, Danish Prime Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen, who was on an official visit to Jakarta, gave Jokowi a Metallica Master of Puppets vinyl box set as a diplomatic gift. It was signed by the band's drummer and co-founder, Lars Ulrich, a Danish native.[157] In accordance to his policy of transparency, Jokowi paid 11 million rupiah ($800) out of his personal funds to claim the record, which had been declared a state asset in order to avoid accusations of corruption.[158]

2019-01-29 18:07:50 UTC

afterwards they called me up to the office at least once a week to ask about my psychological state

2019-01-29 18:07:52 UTC

shit was annoying

2019-01-29 18:08:29 UTC

Same. Nothing like being a 3.83 student with an excellent record and community service and then being hauled multiple times into the office with a Sheriff and the snap on his gun undone because I wore a trench coat

2019-01-29 18:08:35 UTC


2019-01-29 18:08:48 UTC

The weirdest fucking part is now the left is filling that role

2019-01-29 18:08:54 UTC


2019-01-29 18:08:57 UTC

Now my shirts aren't satanic, they're sexist

2019-01-29 18:09:01 UTC

or xenophobic

2019-01-29 18:09:03 UTC


2019-01-29 18:09:18 UTC

Either way, it's good to meet someone with a similar experience

2019-01-29 18:09:41 UTC

The back half of my senior year was hell because of Columbine

2019-01-29 18:09:48 UTC

I can't relate to that particular situation

2019-01-29 18:10:21 UTC

I see it at my job as well

2019-01-29 18:11:01 UTC

I work at a studio and during recording, band members will morally high road eachother on making sure certain lyrics cant be interpreted as hateful

2019-01-29 18:11:16 UTC

Obviously, I can't say anything, but it's so infuriating

2019-01-29 18:11:25 UTC

how 'bout this shirt


2019-01-29 18:11:52 UTC

That's sick

2019-01-29 18:11:59 UTC

I'll have to look in to them

2019-01-29 18:12:16 UTC


2019-01-29 18:12:52 UTC

That's dope

2019-01-29 18:13:16 UTC

Honestly, even if it's leftist music. I'm for bands being as offensive as possible

2019-01-29 18:13:20 UTC

We need that

2019-01-29 18:13:28 UTC


2019-01-29 18:15:16 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM8wWKS2hF0 classic 2nd-wave black metal

2019-01-29 18:15:55 UTC

Wait, is immortal the band that killed his rival and consumed his flesh? Or is it another band?

2019-01-29 18:16:33 UTC

not familiar with that, but there are a couple pretty weird bands in the scene

2019-01-29 18:17:29 UTC

Listening now

2019-01-29 18:17:46 UTC

the guy from Burzum (Varg Vikernes) killed the guitarist from Mayhem back in '93

2019-01-29 18:17:46 UTC

The Chariot's one of my favorite band

2019-01-29 18:17:47 UTC


2019-01-29 18:17:53 UTC

also participated in church burnings

2019-01-29 18:18:00 UTC


2019-01-29 18:18:07 UTC

Ah yeah, that one.

2019-01-29 18:18:27 UTC

Honestly, I will struggle with people with similar make up

2019-01-29 18:18:39 UTC

The Chariot will like, hang from the ceiling during their shows and they'll drive their amps so hard, they catch fire during the performance

2019-01-29 18:18:45 UTC

those dudes are fucking amazing

2019-01-29 18:18:50 UTC

It's literally white paint with black paint on the eye area

2019-01-29 18:18:51 UTC

What you might be thinking of is not cannibalism, but something else. Pretty sure when Dead (bassist of Mayhem) shot himself in '91, the band used a photo of his corpse as the album cover for a live recording

2019-01-29 18:19:04 UTC

and I think they made necklaces out of his teeth or something like that

2019-01-29 18:19:10 UTC

That's Mayhem

2019-01-29 18:19:13 UTC

I believe

2019-01-29 18:19:48 UTC

Wait, so that same band did that

2019-01-29 18:19:50 UTC


2019-01-29 18:20:04 UTC

Yeah, that's it

2019-01-29 18:20:08 UTC

vocalist blew his brains out

2019-01-29 18:20:25 UTC

band used the crime scene shot as an album cover

2019-01-29 18:20:32 UTC

shit's brutal as fuck

2019-01-29 18:21:11 UTC

dont ban me pls

2019-01-29 18:22:49 UTC

that instantly reminded me of this


2019-01-29 18:23:34 UTC

which is some of the most unpleasant music ever made

2019-01-29 18:23:55 UTC

Never heard of em, but i'll definitely check em out

2019-01-29 18:24:11 UTC

The metal scene has some crazy motherfuckers man

2019-01-29 18:24:22 UTC

They secretly recorded actual mental patients in an asylum

2019-01-29 18:24:34 UTC

What the fuck dude

2019-01-29 18:24:42 UTC

That's sick lol

2019-01-29 18:24:44 UTC

because they wanted the hatred and painful emotions to be real

2019-01-29 18:25:04 UTC

It's beautiful in a way

2019-01-29 18:25:14 UTC

and wanted to recreate the situation of WWII POW camps in Germany

2019-01-29 18:25:17 UTC

but in sound

2019-01-29 18:26:18 UTC

They were concentration camps for enemy non-commissioned personnel

2019-01-29 18:26:28 UTC

pretty messed up people, for sure

2019-01-29 18:26:47 UTC

Varg killed Euronymous in selfdesense

2019-01-29 18:27:01 UTC

by stabbing him

2019-01-29 18:27:02 UTC

23 times

2019-01-29 18:27:03 UTC

so he claims

2019-01-29 18:27:06 UTC

yes indeed

2019-01-29 18:27:09 UTC

In any case, it's pretty metal

2019-01-29 18:27:35 UTC

by stabbing him 23 times after walking after him when he was leaving a building they were in, right?

2019-01-29 18:27:45 UTC

Burzum has the most awesome Black Metal songs

2019-01-29 18:28:02 UTC

well ... shit happens 😃

2019-01-29 18:28:36 UTC

Burzum's pretty good but there's better atmospheric black metal out there

2019-01-29 18:29:25 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPyOhP1GTRQ the quintessential Burzum song

2019-01-29 18:29:31 UTC

>10 million views

2019-01-29 18:29:35 UTC

i like the music and the vocals on that one. pretty monotonous, but that's on purpose

2019-01-29 18:29:56 UTC

oh yeah 😃

2019-01-29 18:30:10 UTC

and WAR

2019-01-29 18:30:30 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_XhZj71Zdk my all-time favorite atmospheric black metal album

2019-01-29 18:30:36 UTC

one-man band from Poland

2019-01-29 18:38:14 UTC

how have i never heard of this

2019-01-29 18:43:38 UTC

They're right tbh

2019-01-29 18:43:49 UTC

I'm going to call friends nigger regardless

2019-01-29 18:44:07 UTC

I think I called years one yesterday

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