Thats how they see it

i understand my definition means that very few games are not propaganda, and that is true

but its very often unintentional propaganda

very often internally inconsistent even

Dunno, I just want to shoot shit really

Main reason to make a game is because you want to make a game. These people need to stop telling artists/devs what they're allowed to make.

Nothing political about that unless you make it so

but that is just the thing, it can be the most incompetent unintentional propaganda, and still be a good game

because of the experience of the interactive medium

Well there is a point when it moves from propaganda to a commentary

Welsh Marxist Raymond Williams showed – years after the fact – that the form of the 19th-century novel still supported conservative values, despite containing leftwing content. For Williams, novels such as those of Charles Dickens might sympathise with workers or with revolution – even lionise them – but they could never instigate serious social change, because their political power was limited by the fact that the books were still a commodity to be read after dinner and for pleasure: a kind of storytelling that is easily consumed and doesn’t make the reader confront real politics. The same would apply to many video games today.

when the propaganda is the focus of the development however, most often the game sucks

Its not enough apparently

Hell I could name games that can do social commentary without making it the whole point of the game.

Actually... they are I mean now that I think about it

deus ex for example has a ton of "propaganda"

but its still a good game, they just dress it in a theme that works well

most often

"Unintentional propaganda"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/propaganda

To be honest it came off as more of a political commentary

i mean the piss filter is kinda incompetence

It wasnt hardhanded and didnt have a right or wrong one way or anohter.

And sure, as shitty as the ending was.

>video games are political

fuck no

i want that shit our of gaming

if you are taking issue with my uninentional propaganda bit, i would like to clarify, i meant it is like propaganda, except it is unintentional

I dont like calling games political.

it doest belong there

sometimes

GTA is a great example of a game with a ton of social commentary but it doesn't make it the main point and it just accentuates the game

not always

And I dont like making fiction something to make politics out of

never

its not deus ex

It belongs there if the devs want it there, but it shouldn't be forced or expected

if you are going to be adding it into any video game, dont

But I think some political commentary can fit. But within the constraints of that world only.

does life immitate art or does art immitate life?

It can't be "like" propaganda if it is by definition not at all propaganda

thats kinda what i am getting at

Thing is what is your definition of politics in a game?

There's a big difference between having politics in the game, and hamfisting modern political allegories

Like the social commentary on the benefits of augments but also how it contributes to the gap between augs and non augs?

Like propaganda is a very specific thing, with specific connotations

Or something like "This bad, you must find it bad"

ok lets see if i can give you an example

its like a hamburger, but with insects (in stead of meat)

its like propaganda, but unintentional (in stead of intentional)

which is why i stated it was unintentional

Intent is a core part of propaganda

because i could not come up with a word for unintentional propaganda, like people taking meaning where none was meant

your definition of propaganda makes everything propaganda, even this message

meat is a core part of a burger

i am describing something starting off with propaganda, and modifying it to what i meant

You're just talking about themes and asking questions

So what is it then? Making a premise and having players derive their meanings?

It's not propaganda. Don't misuse the word

No one complains about politics being in Deus Ex or MGS. People do care about shitty journalists telling people that if their games aren't forcing their modern politics that they're doing a disservice.

yes its not

A propaganda pice is heavy handed

its propaganda, but uninentional in stead of intentional

No lol it isnt

And it is designed intentionally to make the user compelled to follow it

if you have a word for it i would like to hear it

People do care when Wolfenstein 2 implies that there are real Nazis roaming the streets of America

For what, DX? It's a theme

but i couldnt come up with one, so i did my best to describe what i meant with the words i do know

Thats... a weakass one

Use an actual game

What is a game that does not come off as propagandistic.

super mary-o brothers

But can be associated as such? That shit is hella subjective

is we happy few propaganda ?

Why would it be?

dont know dick about it, but it will be at least unintentional propaganda

i already saw memes about it

I mean the plot was basically "spoilers"

People take drugs because of a very traumatic experience

i would not be surprized if some of those memes where not intended interpretations of whatever the devs had in mind

so you don't know shit about it but it's 'unintentional propaganda' to you.. ok

Which is a nonsense term lol

I mean now thats making assumptions of the developer

devs are not omnipotent

I want a game that is uninteractively playable

a movie?

Something like a VN?

With no dialog choices?

I don't think the definition of propaganda matters very much for this conversation.
The point is: Let devs make the games they want. Don't force them to shove modern politics into the games where they don't fit, and where they don't want to.

No, it's a game, it's just uninteractively playable unintentional propaganda :^)

Or more on the journos

Stop pushing this so much

see how other people suggested words for the thing you tried to describe in an attempt to share knowledge?

Stop trying to force devs to put in politics

I suggested words, you ignored them

if you know a better way to describe it, please tell me

Literary theme is a thing

Okay how bout this

What is your definition of a propaganda game? And Unintentional? And what game comes to mind?

Just so everyones on the same page