So whenever you see something called Art that is clearly shit, that makes you say "Oh shut the fuck up" Just remember: It's tax evasion.

art means produced with conscious artistry

And unlike that redefinition it holds no utility

It's LEGAL tax evasion.

So don't be as mad. lol

you all are non creative types so i am not surprised that you are authoritarian on this subject

haha

heh

How authoritarian

wow i love modern art now

i am partly trolling

To tell me I'm not a creative type

but partly not

i'm a game developer, i create every day,

I still don't call myself an artist 😛

antifa doesn't call themselves authoritarians

i would label game development as an art but i dont know what that makes you mad, lol

It doesn't, you got upset that i said not everything can just be slapped "art" on and it magically becomes art

ah i gotta go for a minute but nice discussion with you chaps

alrighty, peace bud

👌

The one that always irks me is the game one

What is or isn't a video game

it could be an audio game

Because I've not heard a definition that includes walking sims and doesn't include basically all entertainment software

If it has an interactive game element displayed visually in it its a video game

my mouse pointer is a video game

Game element is the key

It has to be a game

It can't be "hold forward until the end"

Game element is the key,

Because if its just "a story" in visualisation

A pdf of a book is "a game" 😛

I've heard people say it's just any software you use for entertainment

scrolling down to read the next page is interaction, and its graphically visualised

But theres no game element to it

@Atkins If you read between the lines in the Guardian article. Druckman and Kaplan are representatives of major studios. Most of the remainder appear to be university faculty, on galleries or very small studios. It's like movies. These are the guys who make those really awful hyper-politicized indie movies no one watches and teaches the next generation of movie makers what to put in their films (and then hand out the awards)

So I asked them how they'd rate GIMP as a game

i dont think second life is a video game

It isnt

There's no game element to it as a whole

It's highly likely the people are awarding themselves monies out of public treasuries.

Which isn't to say there aren't games in second life

Its a game if it has a game element in it,

Watching a movie on your pc is entertainment, but it doesn't make my media player a video game

👌

Walking simulators are basically just interactive novels,

You can decide how fast it goes etc and listen to a story

hmm

Yup

ok

And it's not insulting for them to not be games. It's better if they're separated

People should know what they're getting into

well theres also things known as "serious games"

Thats basically education in gaming form

Edutainment

what a silly term

"education" in the way that Uni indoctrination is "education"

Or Chinese political education.

education doesnt need to be serious

There are decent educational games

nah, Serious Games are stuff like for example flight simulators for pilots etc

But those usually get called "educational" instead.

thats even more silly

I always thought those were called "simulators" or "trainers"

yeah

well

This "serious games" movement appears to be more about being "artistic" in the style of Brecht or something.

Serious games are meant to be realistic

Utilizing gaming to advance political causes.

Surgeon simulator is not a good representative of real life surgery 😄

No but faux sims aren't sims

lol

I don't think it pretends to be.

They're just memegames

well exactly

A better simulator would be DiRT 3

so Surgeon Simulator would not be qualified as a "Serious Game"

Even though it doesn't have "simulator" in it's name.

or Goat simulator 😛

Dirt is still simcade isn't it?

Bascially. They've actually published papers on simulating dirty-tire interactions to try and properly emulate the physics.

But the game is also designed to still be played casually.

I was thinking stuff like full on sim racers, or DCS

"Serious Games" is probably closer to Papers Please. But without considering "both sides"

And the people who bought spintires for mud physics

Microsoft Flight Simulator?

yes like Flight Simulator

ive seen people play that, i would not call that serious at all

@NativeInterface It's pretty serious. I've played it and gotten bored on the actual flight.

well the idea behind serious games is that they're about learning / training, and not as much about adding a fun-twist to it

see airforceproud95

Once you get steady level and just sit for several hours...

There's a place around here that advertises actual flying lessons and I'm kinda tempted

@Dr.Wol not the "serious games" as described in the Guardian article.

@Beemann how much?

Haven't checked yet

serious is just a description of how uptight the users are

Looks like its about 2-300 depending on the craft

i played this game

i used to allah akbar at the arcade

looks ultra serious

pretty cool game tbh

daium the seriousness is out of control!