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2018-10-16 11:27:50 UTC

2018-10-16 11:29:00 UTC

Hi

2018-10-16 11:29:17 UTC

there arent any ideology roles?

2018-10-16 11:35:15 UTC

@Leiro ใƒฌใ‚คใƒญ ideology roles? what is ur ideology?

2018-10-16 11:35:41 UTC

I'm socialist.

2018-10-16 11:36:21 UTC

but never mind, I would not expect yall to have ideologies since most rightists are Conservative or libertarian

2018-10-16 11:36:41 UTC

so no need lul

2018-10-16 11:37:46 UTC

@Leiro ใƒฌใ‚คใƒญ u r not going to convince any one here to listen to ur Bullshit ideology

2018-10-16 11:38:05 UTC

uhh

2018-10-16 11:38:32 UTC

I was a capitalist until last week so yea I know how it's like.

2018-10-16 11:38:47 UTC

but please, I didn't do anything.. so don't be that aggressive...

2018-10-16 11:40:25 UTC

@Leiro ใƒฌใ‚คใƒญ we know what socialism is and it never produced anything but distress and death

2018-10-16 11:41:01 UTC

socialism is just like islam, a cancer on the world

2018-10-16 11:41:12 UTC

examples?

2018-10-16 11:41:46 UTC

historically speaking, we would still transition to socialism sometime or another.

2018-10-16 11:41:55 UTC

pick any country where socialism worked

2018-10-16 11:44:05 UTC

anywhere that socialism is incoperated is a Shithole

2018-10-16 11:44:42 UTC

socialism cannot be implemented in our current society, it assumes that we need to have the industrial base of capitalism in order for socialism to succeed. The end goal of such a system is post scarcity. In any case, socialism cannot be fully developed in agrarian societies, it can only be developed in industrialised nations. Socialism was somewhat successfull in the post stalinist era and pre yeltsin and khrusvhev era.

2018-10-16 11:45:17 UTC

almost every example of a socialist state originated from agrarian societies, not industralized societies.

2018-10-16 11:45:21 UTC

๐Ÿ˜‚

2018-10-16 11:45:34 UTC

the result of this is the genocide of mass millions and the loss of intellectual beings.

2018-10-16 11:46:39 UTC

although, I am not a stalinist, tankie or Marxist, the Soviet Union was somwhat industrialised compared to pre-great war levels within a short while, at the expense of millions of people.

2018-10-16 11:47:04 UTC

they didn't want to get left behind by the west, so reforms were rushed.

2018-10-16 11:47:24 UTC

and thus? millions dead.

2018-10-16 11:47:31 UTC

by stalinist policies.

2018-10-16 11:49:17 UTC

while on my point about society, historically speaking socialism is inevitable. This can be seen by feudalism in the middle ages, which transitioned to laissez faire capitalism in the 19th century, to the mixed economies of post-ww2 Western nations.

2018-10-16 11:49:32 UTC

socialism like marxism and liberalism is just another flavor of communism

2018-10-16 11:49:52 UTC

marxism is a derivative of socialism

2018-10-16 11:49:59 UTC

and liberals aren't communists.

2018-10-16 11:50:05 UTC

liberals are globalists.

2018-10-16 11:50:16 UTC

same thing

2018-10-16 11:50:17 UTC

and what does globalism mean?

2018-10-16 11:50:22 UTC

International capitalism

2018-10-16 11:50:30 UTC

globalists r communists

2018-10-16 11:50:36 UTC

nope

2018-10-16 11:51:13 UTC

globalists change their agenda whoever it suits them.

2018-10-16 11:51:25 UTC

why do you think they oppress nationalists?

2018-10-16 11:51:57 UTC

freer movement of capital, as well as unregulated open door policies of Muslim economic refugees flooding into Europe.

2018-10-16 11:52:21 UTC

these Muslim refugees directly benefit from the welfare state, so it's in their interests to support the agenda of globalists.

2018-10-16 11:53:05 UTC

globalists only care about themselves and their money

2018-10-16 11:53:16 UTC

obviously

2018-10-16 11:53:38 UTC

but you haven't replied on the why socialism hasnt worked.

2018-10-16 11:54:23 UTC

I gave examples on why it didn't work.

2018-10-16 11:54:56 UTC

it assumes that the industrial base built by capitalism is present.

2018-10-16 11:55:06 UTC

in order for socialism to develop.

2018-10-16 11:55:25 UTC

because socialism has never worked and u have not answered my ? on where has socailism worked

2018-10-16 11:55:49 UTC

@desperado I have already told you why socialism hasnt worked.

2018-10-16 11:55:54 UTC

I just said it just now.

2018-10-16 11:56:06 UTC

it depends on the industrial base of capitalism to work.

2018-10-16 11:56:35 UTC

these socialist states were agrarian, and were neither industralized nor were developed before the revolutions happens

2018-10-16 11:56:47 UTC

then why r u a socialist

2018-10-16 11:57:36 UTC

because inevitably, and historically speaking, the transition to socialism is inevitable, whether it takes decades or centuries.

2018-10-16 11:57:48 UTC

when I was a capitalist, I was still a critic of it.

2018-10-16 11:58:38 UTC

then what happened to Venezuela, once a thriving economy that is now a shithole

2018-10-16 11:59:06 UTC

more than 70% of industry and capital is still privately owned in Venezuela.

2018-10-16 11:59:22 UTC

so how is it socialist?

2018-10-16 11:59:36 UTC

First of all, I want to know your definition of socialism.

2018-10-16 12:00:01 UTC

The USA will never be a socialistic country and socialism is communism

2018-10-16 12:01:24 UTC

I have no say on your first statement, and yes, communism is socialism but mostly based on marxian economics, moderate socialists like me do not believe in marxism or materialism.

2018-10-16 12:02:06 UTC

and I want your definition of socialism.

2018-10-16 12:02:20 UTC

u keep contradicting urself

2018-10-16 12:02:26 UTC

how so?

2018-10-16 12:02:36 UTC

explain.

2018-10-16 12:02:40 UTC

socialism is communism

2018-10-16 12:03:06 UTC

communism is based on Marxist and materialist principles. Socialism is based on neither of those principles.

2018-10-16 12:03:22 UTC

it's clear you don't have a solid idea what socialism is.

2018-10-16 12:03:39 UTC

first u say socialism is not communism the u agree it is

2018-10-16 12:04:42 UTC

yes and no, communism happens when socialism transitions to communism, so it's socialist in that way. However, most Marxist principles do not apply under socialism.

2018-10-16 12:04:59 UTC

ever since does socialism body materialism?

2018-10-16 12:05:45 UTC

u don't understand what socialism is. ur waisting my time

2018-10-16 12:05:47 UTC

you just reply by emojis or circular arguments when I make statements, this is not a healthy arguement desperado.

2018-10-16 12:05:56 UTC

I asked you for your definition of socialism

2018-10-16 12:06:14 UTC

I still haven't got it.

2018-10-16 12:07:17 UTC

so who's wasting who's time?

2018-10-16 12:08:55 UTC

**opposing viewpoints are welcome, but expect them to be challenged**

2018-10-16 12:11:55 UTC

socialism takes from the producers and gives to the nonproducers

2018-10-16 12:12:26 UTC

socialist produce nothing

2018-10-16 12:12:31 UTC

so workers are nonproducers?

2018-10-16 12:12:43 UTC

workers toiling in sweatshops are nonproducers?

2018-10-16 12:13:24 UTC

heard of the concept of surplus value?

2018-10-16 12:13:42 UTC

and wheres the definition of socialism?

2018-10-16 12:13:59 UTC

yea they produce and r exploited by these socilistic countries

2018-10-16 12:14:23 UTC

so workers are exploited by socialists?

2018-10-16 12:14:35 UTC

mate, at this point I don't even know what to say.

2018-10-16 12:14:55 UTC

capitalism builds wealth based off the labour of the workers.

2018-10-16 12:15:30 UTC

under capitalism your hired for your mere ability to work, not the actual labour you expend and the socially productive hours spent making said goods.

2018-10-16 12:16:21 UTC

I'm not interested to hear the marriam-webster definition, I'm interested in hearing ***your*** explanation.

2018-10-16 12:16:51 UTC

I want to know what ***you*** think is the definition of socialism, not some dictionary.

2018-10-16 12:19:36 UTC

socialist think the state should run everything, and the state should take from producers and give it to the people who don't produce anything

2018-10-16 12:20:07 UTC

wrong.

2018-10-16 12:20:23 UTC

socialism is when the workers democratically own the means of production.

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