@Wojak <#540344129184595968>

for each question i ask, i write down 3 answers

I found it just as you @'d me

I'm a dum

Guess I wait 24 hours then.

Thanks.

i'm going to prioritise my evening rituals - i need time alone daily to ground myself

@Wojak Mind if I ask who tossed you the invite?

No idea. Someone on Gab.

Watches my stuff I guess.

Figured I'd poke my head in.

Well, welcome to it.

@JDB That is great, if it works it works. If it doesn't revise.

@Wojak What stuff do you make?

yeah, i plan to - in the 'what can i learn from today' section in my log book i will adapy

for the time being, this is what im looking forward to doing

i'm leaving my job in 4 weeks

Science related videos on human behavior. Psychology mainly so far, but I do have a very diverse array of interests. Just no time. So mostly psychology as yet.

I rather rigorously delve in to the science, publications, etc. Actually read the literature.

Something most people don't do.

So far, also, a lot to do on loneliness, incel related (in that incels are lonely), things like that.

Oh so you are Wondering Wojak. It is a pleasure to meet you!
I love your content... even if it takes several rewatches to grasp. Haha.

My boyfriend says I take too many words to say things >:I

Fix me I'm broken :p

If I'm a tourist can I wear a Hawaiian shirt?

Maybe. I am just not statistically minded so it takes me some review to understand the points in terms of how does this data reflect the point.
Many people are verbose, obviously myself incldued.

Well, that's infinitely better than a lot of "criticism" I receive. So far only from people who seem to think the very _idea_ of trying to investigate whether something is true is a heresy.

Lots of them came out of the woodwork concerning corporal punishment.

Feeling a bit slow on a subject is always preferable to giving up and assuming superiority.

I mean, yeesh.

*nods*
I can see that. I tend to avoid the comments section on YT because I very rarely find anything useful there.
I do have a question for you though.
I want to get more into the habit of reading actualy study papers, but I rarely have the paitence and knowledge to do so.
I have read 10-15 papers to date and the rest of my knowledge on the subject comes from reading books on the subject. (Dawkins, Pinker, Buss etc..)
So how have you found is a good way to help yourself read more?

@Wojak I really enjoyed your videos on loneliness, by the way, mate.

Second, I have a hard time finding papers about a subject and the studies I have read are mostly given to me from other videos.
How do you 'discover' papers on a subject beyond some google-fu on google scholar?

I studied adolescent development for school and only recently started returning to the subject; rather worried about the comparative absence of studies since the 2000s.

That's iffy. I've always read more than anyone else I've ever known. From fiction, to history, and so forth. I don't know how to "cultivate" it without a natural sense of obsession for learning. I read because I have to. Or I won't figure out how to know what's true or false. More information means more to work with. Means less mistakes. It means the best possible chance of seeing as much of the world as possible - and definitely do not discount fiction for this. Far better philosophy is written in fiction than in university.

Adolescent development isn't "kool" since they found out none of their studies on interventions validated. Buuut they still do on young children. Tabula Rasa springs eternal.

Hence why all those intervention studies try reaaaaaaaaaal hard to never longitudinally check beyond childhood.

And anyone who does realizes interventions do nothing.

Also, it's my general sense that people _hate_ teenagers.

Yeah I... learned that the hard way during 'rehab center' internships and a couple youth ministry groups that served as forced counseling for local juvies.

Any wonder teenagers hate the world. Everyone hates them by default.

Told outright we weren't there to "fix" anyone, only to manage them.

It's pretty despicable how we treat adolescents.

Yeah, makes good sense why they've got a chip on their shoulders about it.

Anyone would, treated with such neglect or, even worse, dismissal.

"Oh, you're learning how to figure out the world? Fuck off until you do"

_So helpful_

I can at least say, up until 2012, neglect is the modus operandi for how to deal with "criminals" and "recidivists" under 18.

Well, that and the rape.

Lots of that going on.

But as long as men are the ones being raped, who cares?

Yeah, that's strictly off-limits and a catch-22 for the clinic.

Highest rape stats in the nation aren't prison. It's Juvie.

Yep.

That's the sick thing: Prisoners have recourse to the law.

The law rolls its eyes at teenagers.

And if the clinics don't address it, it festers. If they do, the clinic will be pulled from the roster of places for kids to go when they're booted back out.

The law would have to look at teenagers to roll its eyes at them, might be more accurate.

I suspect more than several mysterious shank implements have been introduced to rape victims by someone's under-the-table idea of "fixing" the problem without reporting it.

Knew more than a few kids with known histories of parental abuse, immediately returned home on house arrest.

Fixes two problems, right? Who cares if the criminal gets more time, right?

I know how this shit works. And there's a reason I have zero respect for the law.

Yep; patch the pipe. No one cares if the water's clean, stop the leak and move on.

You also see a lot of victims of Munchausen's by proxy.

"He's crazy. No really."

And how does a _not_ crazy teenager prove his _mother_ is the insane one? He doesn't.

He's never given the chance.

If he tries, well, he's a narcissist who thinks he's superior to his poor innocent mother.

Lots of very bad "psychiatrists" on government pay.

That was both common and explicitly unaddressed. And at the time I would have had something approaching a "professional" capacity to deal with it, I was a psych student who had no clue what to practically look for.

I do. And I want to burn the industry to the ground.

You're actually still in?

HELL no. I saw the product, I talked to them, I _listened_ and investigated.

And NOPED right the fuck off that idea.

I do not think, one instant, that any fucker who works in those facilities is a good person.

They're all power craving lunatics who want easy ways to abuse power and justify their superiority.

It _attracts_ narcissists.

It _attracts_ people who abuse authority.

Because teenagers are the single most vulnerable population - and they know it.

Jesus, was about to say. I was fool enough to think that one degree of separation into 'private sector' clinics would help, but yeah; same folk, different clothing.

Hooooly shit no.

It's no better.

Oh, I know that now.

Once upon a time I almost did university with the intent of working to help people like that. Good for me I was smart enough to do investigating first. A lot of it.

Chose to major in mathematics instead.

But spent all my time doing psychology anyway.

Psychology has sort of rotted to the core. Lack of control and filtering.

There's no checks and balances against abuses of power and authority.

I have experienced that even a good psychiatrist is still not helpful.
They at best can offer general advice you can get in a 5 minute google search. (IE Fight depression with exercise and forcing social interaction.)
Or poor advice. (IE You should forgive and continue to interact with your abusers because they are related to you and you will regret not doing so.)

It's hideous how that occurs in a field where it should be MOST prevalent. MOST cautious.

I was in seminary for 2 years, straight out of high school. Psych and Divinity and they set me up in a government joint over the summers for the former. Two organizations I washed out of, though the church was a... much more explosive one.

To be fair, Kragt, you often do have to exercise and force social interaction. inasmuch as you can stand it.

A good psychologist would help you figure out how.

Just being told "do this" doesn't help.

>Seminary

oooooh

@Kragt They're also not being taught to help you, only what they need to manage your symptoms.

I was a jehovah's witness until I turned 14. Got out of that one in a hurry.

Read Jordan Peterson

and go squat

@Wojak Nondenominational for me.

@Five, Seven, and Two Exactly.
I fixed my depression issues a few years ago by learning more about where it came from. 2 years of the best shrink I ever had did nothing by comparison.

Well, yes and no. Researchers absolutely are trying to figure out how to help people. But there's a sort of detachment between academia and the session-culture with the research and intent of the science.

^

Often the best way to help is introspection. Which, yes Kragt, often means researching it yourself.

To help introspective people that's what you should foster.

That gives you a sense of self efficacy - agency.

Power and control and ability to make your life better.

It's helping people with BAD introspection that you need to really direct thoroughly and carefully.

Tons of clinical tools given to people, like mood charts, are exactly for people with bad introspection.

People who cannot really think about their mental states or remember them reliably.

ohhh the personality chart

16 of them, yea?

Huh?

No. 5. And that's personality assessment. I'm talking about mood.

"16" is the sort of myers-briggs pseudoscience astrology.

teach

There are a lot of useful tools in psychology but also a lot of bad psychologists who don't know how to use them.

word

once I read JP my life changed

🗡

Jordan Peterson

572, can I steb?

Have at.

<:batman:532079386946568193>

Hmm... That is probably true.
I honestly can't concieve of what a life would be like for a person bad at introspection. I practiced a lot of meditation some 10 years ago in my continual quest to stop the pain of depression and I forgot what life was like before then.
This is a thing Stardusk and... even JP has mentioned... that once you end up away from an area of a bell curve it can be hard to understand how a person on the other end experiences things. (In this case they were talking about IQ)

Meditation helped me considerably.

More than anything else before or since.

I went to China for 6 months

martial arts training, it completley changed me

meditation was part of the exp;erience

I can say, from experience, that breathing is fogotten skil

you learn to breath properly when you exert the body

squatting, is a great way, striking works too

It helped but didn't fix it.
I still had terrible episodes for years afterwards.
It wasnt till about a year or two ago that I finally solved it, mostly by researching and realizing that my goals in life (>_> Blue pill dreams of a happy family life) were impossible and were keeping my set up for continual failure.
After that I realized I didn't need external validation and then poof. A month later I stopped crying in a corner and ripping my hair out while debating if I should hang myself in my closet.

Well, meditation and buddhism helped. Learn to let go.

gdamn...

I was in the military as well, I've known two guys that offed themselves

they were in th emilitary as well

@Kragt I'm glad to hear you tackled that yourself, that's a frightfully uncommon end to that story.

forreal

@Wojak What's your take on the "commercialized" Buddhism getting sold as self-help now?

Yeah @Wojak my problem was I didn't learn that lesson for a while.
Learning psychology and where those feelings came from made them a lot less important.

@Kragt Jung saved my life, too. Not an exaggeration.

Like most things given to you fast and cheap, it's fattening and bad for you.

sometimes you just need to go squat though

@Five, Seven, and Two Depends, what are your thoughts on eat pray love.

getting too caught up in your feelings isn't healthy

@Kragt Seething hatred comes to mind.

go and exert your body

and you get lost in that skill development

you will always win under those circumstances

@Darkness That is symptom management. I am talking about fixing the problem at its source. Symptom management buys you time only. The problem will return if you don't fix it.

^

it prepares you

at the very least

to make the transition more obtainable

at least in my exp

yea, the meditation for sure

I just recommend everyone to Ajahn Brahm. Decades of videos of his talks, very simple, somewhat repetitive, but strictly original buddhism.

I didn't know how to do it properly

we're so distracted it's difficult

Theravadan buddhism works, and with none of the highly religious ritualistic gobbledeegook other cultures added on to it.

Learn to let go, and to be mindful.

Simple is what works.

Tao

@Wojak Solid recommendation.

I heard he stepped down, recently?

It does have some ritualistic gobbledegook, but any sensible person can see the point isn't the ritual. In fact _the first listed stage of enlightenment is to accept that_.

@Five, Seven, and Two The self-help buddism is built to be as commercially accessable as possible. So it will lose what makes it useful in its quest to be more available.
If the average person is bad at introspection, and buddism requires it to work the average person will not be able to use buddism effectively.

Yes, over a disagreement. I forget about what.

Tao (/daʊ/, /taʊ/) or Dao (/daʊ/) DOW; from Chinese: 道; pinyin: Dào [tâu] ( listen)) is a Chinese word signifying 'way', 'path', 'route', 'road' or sometimes more loosely 'doctrine', 'principle' or 'holistic beliefs'.

pinyin is th eromanized written form of the chinese lingo

romanized*

Basically the council or whatever wouldn't back him over what he thought was essential and important. Being that was the case, he stepped down from it as the only viable solution.

Since he could not, _especially_ not as head monk, do otherwise.

You cannot be a buddhist and go "Well I'll just ignore this then"

take what's useful discard th rest

people are so set on association

want to be a part of someting

@Kragt That 'bad at introspection' part is what worries the fuck out of me. Buddhist principles are excellent for average introspection, but it's like any other philosophy: putty in the hands of a solipsist.

You develop introspection by meditating.

Hence the whole development of it.

@Wojak I'll need to look up who argued for what, then, I'd hadn't heard it was a doctrinal disagreement, half expected it to be a political falling out.

it's as if empathy doesn't esxist

And I agree, but handing a histrionic meditation principles without a roadmap is asking for trouble.

@Wojak I retract my previous argument. You are right here.

Nah, he wanted to make things less of a workload by expanding committees with people he trusts. Apparently it got vetoed by the use of some proxy or other legalese.

He thinks that was unethical, as the people who vetoed didn't even (according to him) know what was going on.

any ufc fans? 235 tonight

Ah, I see.

I'd link buuut no link.

So google ajahn brahm resignation

it's a very short letter.

I'm a fan.

What's going on?

@Xychotic Morning, brother.

brb

you're a fan but you dont know?

@Five, Seven, and Two Morning.

wtf is that

Basically Wojak showed up and the 4ish of us have been talking since then.

@Darkness I find it rather cozy under my rock, thank toy very much

Lok

usman woodley, smith jones

When?

tonight

Dunno... 45 mins ago?

I would have to go out to watch the fight.

Oh

@Wojak I'm glad to hear it was a step down, not entirely out.

yea, great time to get some ass too

I think I misread @Xychotic 's question.

Also, good morning gentlemen.

Morning mates!

Ah, it is about the changing of the guard, isn't it? About bedtime for me.

@Five, Seven, and Two Should wojack be given the content creator tag? Or is that something he has to request in the <#514930508363202561> channel himself?

when am I able to share youtube vids

@Kragt That's not a decision I'm comfortable making alone. I'll vouch for him to the admins and see if we can get him the roles by the time the 24-hr warm-in period is up.

Gotcha. Thank you for answering.

Of course.

@Darkness You're a content creator?

negative

is that the req?

I could...

You mean share videos as in post in the memes or shitposting channels?

Or news?

I thought he meant here.

Nah, no links/images in general except for the mod/admin teams.

If a vid is really nesscessary or useful to a conversation I just PM it to a mod/admin and ask if they would be willing to post it on my behalf.

fine

otherwise it can be pm

@Kragt Best practice is to request privileges and post it in any of the other channels.

@Five, Seven, and Two there is this bright yellow disk rising in the distance, what do?

@Rhunespire Worship it.

@Rhunespire Wear black glasses... or pull the curtains closed... or embrace the incoming doom.

Sacrifice small children and pets. Preferably not your own.

Will it burn us?

Not if you sacrifice enough.

Hmmmm tempting.

Plenty of anti-vaxxer brats around here

If the Bright Disk didn't want you to kill all those kids for it, it wouldn't have given you the light by which to pursue them.

XD

I mean, that's clearly flawless logic

🤔

If children wern't ment to be sacrificed why would they be alive to begin with?

And they're anti-vaxxer kids, you're doing them a mercy.

<:tellmemore:532084430664105994> <:tellmemorepepe:480186120823373835> tell me more

acnt post oijn other channels though

anyway, best practice is to squat