Regardless if I convert or not, I'm going to hell. I've accepted that.

Just saying

@Punished Korgoth in old testament, sacrifices were made in conjunction with repentance, jesus is/was the ultimate sacrifice, so there was a shift in how god handled things.

@The Pathfinder Ω I'm not gonna get preachy but I disagree

I believe their is a simple explanation for the genocide aspect to the old testament, before the flood man was engaged is genetic tampering much like we are now and it was nessicary for God to send the flood to wipe out the tampered dna while preserving the few humans who's code was not fucked

@Atomic Andy I've seen and done things that will get me there. I'll do far worse when it's Collapse time.

Keep in mind I am sociopathic.

@Reaper I see you what mean. But the bible still advocated for plunder, rape and murder. Sure It was logical to sometimes do that (more resources for your tribe, more babies etc)but its still immoral and it was used for survival but sometimes greed as well. most times at least.

@The Pathfinder Ω fair enough, but as long as you have faith you will be saved, and your sins will be forgiven, at least that's how I interpret it

not necessarily a bad thing

@°°° Still though, god knowing everything means he could easily have found another way. No need to murder jesus and make unecessary sacrifices

@Punished Korgoth now your getting into the reasons I never quite trusted religion

@Atomic Andy What I'll do in the collapse will be seen as Crimes against God, not just humanity. Not believing will be the "nicest" thing I do.

@The Pathfinder Ω a psychiatry proffessor of mine told me once
"this is not defining"
and despite he was wrong i made it so he is right 😄

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon When did you wake up? and how? I found channels like The amazing atheist and darkmatter2525

The bible does not advocate for rape, plunder yes at times and also murder but with justification, religion is a scam no doubt but that does not disqualify the bible itself

^

@Punished Korgoth it didn't require a YouTube channel to wake me up about that. To be honest, I questioned religion from the very beginning of my childhood. I use to get spanked a lot by my parents for the questionings I made

The bible is a 2000+ year old book which has somehow maintained relevance and it warrants examination on that fact alone

Didn't the bible say "claim the women you capture as your own" or something like that?

The spankings only furthered my doubts

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon I actually doubted before youtube. However the youtube channels i mentioned really drove me towards atheism.

@Punished Korgoth atheism is a religion as well though

how so?

It is not dogmatic in anyway

@Punished Korgoth well see that's the thing with me.......I don't trust aethiesm either

and it has no god or being to worship

No God can still be a religion

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon Why not?

are you more agnostic?

@Punished Korgoth because to truly back evolution their are aspects which cannot be proven and you have to "believe"

I don't think god is a scam, but I do recognize that organized religion, is, and the bible has been translated and transcribed to the point that it's not 100% accurate but I do believe in Jesus, God, and many of the lessons in the bible

I've gone through these atheists communities and they sperg out just as much as Christians but in the opposite direction

^

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon agreed

I see "God" as a way to control people through an idea, lazily.

both can be cringy asf

@Punished Korgoth i totally agree, religions in general, are weird.

The smarter ones certainly aren't wrong in their criticism

@Reaper It can be proven just look at how certain dogs are bred. They are forced to evolve in a certain way. Not to mention atheists dont just pull anything out of their ass. They use science to prove their points.

But who's to say

@The Pathfinder Ω when you say that you also declare that everything we see can reasonably be boiled down to chance, that's a bit much for me

Chance and circumstance?

And the thing is. It's not even hard to debate a Christian into the ground. A lot of atheist somehow manage to fuck it up

I see that as viable.

@Punished Korgoth that is irrefutable, do you know what's not? One species transitioning to another

All dogs are related to dogs there is no proof that a reptile can become a bird

I've debated christianity into dust with religious people without any preparation

It's super easy

But some atheist manage to fuck it up

Transitional species are a myth and are completely illogical

@AllThingsExpendable Are you a Christian MGTOW?

@Reaper The DNA of birds are a match to that of certain dinos

@Reaper That is possible. Life transitioned from prokaryotes to eukaryotes. and we evolved from being a creature of the sea to being a land animal.

It is possible given the right conditions

it takes a long though

@agogeghost Not MGTOW. Just...an Atheist Catholic.

Dinos ≠ Reptiles

its not magic

@AllThingsExpendable Wait. What?

@Punished Korgothpossible and provable are different things

If it's not provable it's not science

@AllThingsExpendable Interesting. Can you elaborate on the label.

@AllThingsExpendable So you are a practicing Catholic (an organized religion) but you're an atheist?

@agogeghost I don't believe in God, but I do put my faith in the practice, because I find it important.

Ah.

I understand that.

What specific practices do you value?

Evolution may be slow but by now its had billions of years to do its magic

So you do it as a means to keep yourself in line...interesting...

You gain a sense of moral agency from religion without buying into the personal relationship with a god?

@Reaper Nothing in science is really concrete. Science evolves.

That's the goal of religion after all. Moral agency.

You don't need religion to be a moral person that's a load of shit

@agogeghost Exactly. It's just a form of moral upkeep.

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon why do apes still exist if random mutation though environmental forces cause them to transition to humans??

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon Thats true

@AllThingsExpendable What are you afraid will happen if you don't have a moral structure?

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon True, but that's what it's there for. Order and belief.

We have the capacity to be civilised

@agogeghost he fars becomming like me

so we dont need religion

Random mutations cannot account for all biodiversity, mutations cause damage not progress

@AllThingsExpendable What about Catholicism extolls the best morals in your mind versus other religions?

@Reaper it's not as though apes aren't practically endangered as it is

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon yea but why would they exist at all if evolution is driven by necessary change?

The reason might be because apes and humans can't breed with each other. All other human species were wiped out from interbreeding

@Reaper Which is why the mutations that cause harm are rooted out

@agogeghost It's not entirely personal. I believe religion or some form of it is necessary for society to remain structured. The lack of religion, I find it, currently, is resulting in a dissipating moral rigor, allowing loose ideas to corrupt many institutions that wouldn't otherwise. Modernity is itself a corroding agent, actually. But that's a complicated topic, that I haven't fully comprehended. Just a thought.

If you have a positive mutation and i have a negative I die out

you live

@AllThingsExpendable This is personal but do you have sex? Do you have a wife/gf? Do you have kids or want a family? Do you think masturbation is evil/porn is bad?

and reproduce

@agogeghost I had sex once, which I regret now.

Also they may share a common ancestor but there was a branch off between what apes are and what humans are

@AllThingsExpendable Why do you regret it?

@agogeghost Porn is bad, but not evil. And I regret it because it wasn't with a girl I wanted to marry.

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon Did you see that cool video made by Vsauce?

It has the same subject matter

pretty cool