Weld is a tool. I never disliked Johnson. I mean everyone was upset about the Aleppo thing. I was kinda like, "Wouldn't it be nice if the President didn't know what Aleppo is or even give a shit?"

Exactly

And yet, now we got Sleepy Joe who doesn't even know what office he's running for and Trump can really say whatever he wants. I hate the different standards.

I'm fairly positive about that. Look media will cover for his senility but there will be debates. And they are going to put a man who can't remember what day it is in a ring with Trump. It may be more of a slaughter than when Bernie tried to debate Cruz on healthcare.

I mean he's just going to get mauled.

Yeah, Trump will destroy him in any head-to-head debate. Bernie and a huge youth vote turnout is the only chance they have of unseating Trump.

Well that's kind of Bernie's problem. You can't win with just the youth and nobody old enough to remember the Cold War is gonna vote for a commie.

I'd vote for him just for anti-establishment and he's kind of based. Universal healthcare would be nice too and I know he can't pass everything he wants.

Minimum wage at $15? Nah. Free college? No.

Umm, have you actually known anyone who has been reduced to using Medicare?

yes, my uncle

Pretty awful. I hope your uncle had Medicare supplemental insurance.

@Jym Bernie acts like anyone who doesnt vote for him supports the ominous monolith "establishment". Maybe people just disagree with your literally impossible campaign promises? <:pot_of_kek:544849795433496586>

He seems to get care just fine, it's the little dumb things that they want him to do like have some yearly doctor's "audit" where they make recommendations where no one follows up.

Mainly though, whether through the government or a freer market system: my main goals would be to see medical care cost a lot less and not have it tied to something like your job.

You should really compare it to the basic coverage one gets from the normal insurance system. There's a world of difference.

Well I have a bronze plan so

I can't say it's much better

My goal is also to reduce *costs* socialized medicine is a change in *method of payment*.

I don't even have bronze. I have major medical (for shit like cancer and getting hit by a bus) and Concierge which costs less and provides more.

Well it would be nice if the government would strong arm the medical/insurance industry instead of the other way around

State of MN does a good job subsidizing plans on their marketplace website, but still not cheap by any means

Not entirely opposed depending on what you mean by 'strong arming'. Half of the world's medicines are invented here. Now they pay for the R&D by having a local monopoly. If we legalized *importing* medication they would have to raise their prices abroad because they would have to compete against arbitrage.

Also what you call 'bronze' now cost half as much before ACA.

Maybe it does cost less, all I know is after Obamacare passed and I had work health insurance it went from awesome to mediocre and cost 2x as much

and got worse every year after

Pretty much because while it is not 'single payer' per-say it has the same economic effect. Because it changes not cost but method of payment. So the burden of payment transfers to you and the quality goes down. Whether that is though Bernie's tax or Obama's fees the result is the same.

It's still the fault of the insurance companies in collusion with hospitals to jack up prices astronomically

so whatever busts that stranglehold

a way-open free market? A central healthcare system telling them what to charge? Either way

I'd say additionally that the procedure of medical school raises costs. Doctors have undergrads often in entirely unrelated subjects. That's 4 years of school and the accompanying expense added for no reason. Even Nursing school extends to undergrad.

As to 'whatever works' a central system fails on the grounds of working. At least working up to American standards.

Well the fact that school also is too expensive now is the other half of that problem. Either way, we need to cut out the middleman.

No government-backed student loans, no insurance companies

Ah and how did school become so expensive? We had a central government universally fund it.

That's the problem.

Definately get a trade. My little sister is graduating from trade school in a couple months. Pricing plane tickets.

That's another thing, the myth everyone should go to college. Especially when they get worthless degrees in stuff like gender studies

Right but why do they get those degrees? Because the fed will insure loans for anyone who qualifies. So where does this put the incentive for the schools? Spend as much as you want to make your product attractive to the end user who will not see the bill. Then raise the price to cover it at a nice profit.

Socialized medicine results in the same set of incentives. Except that the cost can be pushed onto *everyone* and is not dependent on extending lines of credit to teenagers.

But how come it doesn't in most of the countries that have a national health care system? You often see that Americans pay more for healthcare than anyone else in the world. They wouldn't give people loans to get care like a college loan. You'd just get covered, and maybe have a very small fee. The government and the hospitals/pharma/etc can work out pricing vs the insurance companies doing it to try to make themselves rich along with kickbacks to the hospital.

I'd prefer a fully open healthcare market with no insurance companies, just pay reasonable costs, home visits, etc. But no one is trying to go back to that in earnest.