@xorgy you can just say people rather then american. All people everywhere constantly make stupid as hell decisions and learn nothing from it

So it uses other successful steps by other accounts to help new accounts?

<https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgd9nYqVz2s>

@Misomania yeah, it's just that the absolute scale of americans' financial mistakes is astronomical

@Misomania the main reason for that is that their absolute wealth is so high

what about greece?

Most Americans can afford a far better true standard of living than they choose to buy

that's what makes it so outrageous

greece doesn't have the revenue to make the sorts of mistakes that america does

or venezuela?

venezuela suffers from the long term effects of personal stupidity: codified state stupidity

it's not a country thing though, people are just fucking stupid as hell

Well, finance is actually hard

so I don't think people are stupid for fucking it up

I was terrified of doing anything except depositing and holding money

because I had nfi how any of this worked

get enough people in a single area and the mistakes compound, and it seems democracy is the system it uses to give those idiots power over the government

I have an IQ greater than 140, and I have trouble understanding my tax returns

Service guarantees citizenship

I have spent the last two years working on personal finance modeling software

and I still don't really understand my personal finances

it is _hard_

I'd imagine that's because tax law is intentionally obtuse

and that is why people make bad decisions

because if they make any decision at all, it is an accomplishment

it's MADE to be hard, thus making an entire field of tax accountants

It's really not that hard

Well, some of that is true to be sure

but most of that is obscurant

And giving large corporations with legal teams a leg up

@UwuesVult is right

in _reality_ it is not that hard

you can do the right thing financially

it is not unlawful

it doesn't involve any weird regulatory problems

So, then, how much do we restrict the franchise in order to ensure proper governance?

You just have to pay respect to what money actually is, ignore fiat stupidity and disregard usury

who would hire tax accountants if the field were transparent, honest, non changing and easy to grasp? same thing as medical billing

Do we go back to landowning male citizens? More restrictive, less?

but it is obscured by millions of people whose job it is to show you all sorts of techniques and approaches which will make you _poor_

@Bookworm Heinlein