Message from @Saturn

Discord ID: 680634097504223274


2020-02-22 04:33:07 UTC  

Sure.

2020-02-22 04:33:31 UTC  

you're saying regular people can get onto a moving satellite and watch the clocks adjust for time dilation?

2020-02-22 04:33:53 UTC  

They can put something on a moving satellite, yes.

2020-02-22 04:34:04 UTC  

Or on a sub-orbital rocket.

2020-02-22 04:34:12 UTC  

They can conduct their own experiments with enough money.

2020-02-22 04:34:22 UTC  

a regular, non-astronaut person for long enough to watch the clocks eventually adjust?

2020-02-22 04:34:35 UTC  

If they build a device to do it for them...yes.

2020-02-22 04:34:43 UTC  

Or some kind of mechanism to calculate it.

2020-02-22 04:34:50 UTC  

Then, of course...

2020-02-22 04:34:53 UTC  

and that they'd be ALLOWED to do this?

2020-02-22 04:34:56 UTC  

You'd have to trust their word.

2020-02-22 04:34:56 UTC  

you see what I'm saying?

2020-02-22 04:35:01 UTC  

Yes, they would.

2020-02-22 04:35:24 UTC  

You can also, at that point, see plenty of other indicators of the form of the Earth.

2020-02-22 04:35:29 UTC  

Not just relativistic motion.

2020-02-22 04:35:34 UTC  

What also bugs me about them is that they don’t listen to logic. You show them the calculations, the reasons why things are, and they just throw it away and call it fake.

2020-02-22 04:35:48 UTC  

sigh. look, this is what a lot flat earther's are getting at. they want something you can actually test realistically.

2020-02-22 04:36:05 UTC  

I’ve always wanted to see a physical argument between an astrophysicist and a flat earther.

2020-02-22 04:36:13 UTC  

Well...

2020-02-22 04:36:20 UTC  

Realistically, I *have* tested it.

2020-02-22 04:36:54 UTC  

You could very realistically test it too, just book the next flight with a 2U payload.

2020-02-22 04:37:12 UTC  

I'm not saying you CAN'T realistically test your claims. But, most times, it's conjecture.

2020-02-22 04:37:26 UTC  

Well, it is all conjecture at some degree.

2020-02-22 04:37:36 UTC  

The importance is, after enough redundancy, it ceases being a fallacy.

2020-02-22 04:38:05 UTC  

it's *unsubstantiated*, then.

2020-02-22 04:38:17 UTC  

usually.

2020-02-22 04:38:26 UTC  

from what I see here most days.

2020-02-22 04:38:48 UTC  

Well...name one thing that is definitively substantiated without requiring conjecture or some kind of appeal to authority.

2020-02-22 04:39:19 UTC  

Well, I've done my own sims in 3D programs to support points.

2020-02-22 04:39:30 UTC  

and provided them for people to see on this server.

2020-02-22 04:40:06 UTC  

I've back up claims with evidence that I try to do myself.

2020-02-22 04:41:04 UTC  

But...are you not appealing to the authority of the program itself?

2020-02-22 04:41:37 UTC  

That's the thing, if we deny any authority whatsoever, we throw out anything that is provable by those more informed than us and regulate ourselves to doing only the most basic of 'provable' functions.

2020-02-22 04:41:44 UTC  

which, themselves, are not even fully provable.

2020-02-22 04:42:49 UTC  

I completely agree with you about denying authority. Modern humans would not be where they are today without appealing to authority.

2020-02-22 04:43:19 UTC  

I think the question there is, however...

2020-02-22 04:43:21 UTC  

But you are nitpicking debate tactics here.

2020-02-22 04:43:27 UTC  

To what degree is it acceptable to appeal to authority?

2020-02-22 04:43:41 UTC  

Eh, nitpicking is my specialty, as in this case I think it holds valid meaning.

2020-02-22 04:43:52 UTC  

If we refuse appeals to authority of any magnitude, we refuse everything.

2020-02-22 04:45:27 UTC  

for some reason observable only means "observable with the resources i immediately have access to", which doesn't make sense. It's pretty clear the level of wealth needed to observe some of these phenomena is actually possesed by people alive today