is that infallible @Eoppa

Neither statement is infallible, but yes that's the Encyclical

My quote was from Pope Pius X

As long as I have the right letter I am satisfied

Although XII is my favorite, Pius X was a beast of a Pope, arguably the best in terms of social doctrine

The whole "this is unnatural" or "this is inhumane" thing kind of triggers me. I don't understand why we need to stick to what's "natural" or what's "humane." Progressivism and Traditionalism aside, it's very unnecessary to stick to said natural/humane values, since one of the most important goals of humanity is perfection, and that perfection can be achieved through unnatural or inhumane ways as well. Being perfectly educated, for example, is one value which can be extremely useful, yet it requires unnatural ways in order to be achieved. For example, the use of technology, which is automatically an unnatural sector, can very well help you become perfectly educated, and it can do so ten times quicker than the natural process of learning. What's humane is also the unnecessary Egoism that resides inside of every human being that ever stepped on Earth. I don't see why we shouldn't overcome this humane and natural feeling, since its eradication can be extremely useful, for extremely obvious reasons.
Bumping this back up teeheehee

well if its not infallible why link it?

Wait so that isn't an authoritative position?

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"Progressivism and Traditionalism aside, it's very unnecessary to stick to said natural/humane values, since one of the most important goals of humanity is perfection, and that perfection can be achieved through unnatural or inhumane ways as well."

Huge given assuming one of the most important goals of humanity is perfection... And, to be frank, I don't even know what perfection means. I think its fair to say every human pursues that which they perceive as good, if we define the good as that which is worth pursuing. So to say that one of the most important goals of humanity is perfection is perhaps in no way a radical statement, considering everyone has their own definition for what the unsurpassable ideal might be.

And while we're at it, I'll throw in my own definition of perfection just so we have something to work with: the life you could ideally live is determined by your nature, determined by what you are biologically meant to do. I'll keep it vague, but this is enough as it is to make the claim that anything "unnatural" hinders your ability to pursue the ideal life, and is hence immoral. This is NOT synonymous with saying that technology is unnatural, and hence immoral; I only claim that what is unnatural can never be good (and the good being what is always in my self-interest) if what is moral for me is engendering the highest capacities of my nature. Saying the "use of technology" seems incredibly vague to me. Is the chimp which uses the reed as a straw to eat ants unnatural, and hence immoral, and in being unnatural does not pursue the true good, and thus lives an un-affirming life? That seems unlikely to me. Is it unnatural to use a rock? A pencil? A door? A lightbulb? A camera? A car? A computer? I know where I would draw the line, but seeing as how you made the initial claim the burden is on you to elaborate when a tool or action becomes unnatural. @Koninos

Well yeah, I don't agree with the semi egoist way of talking about morals.

We do seek perfection, I just think it's objective

Natural concerns *natures* not the natural world (in this context)

I'll respond to that in a bit

My laptop is dying, and my charger is no longer working. I'm not gonna be on my computer for a few days

Don't know if I should put this in philosophy or serious, but I was having this discussion on another server.
I would consider pornography immoral. But I don't know if I would ban it, simply because I do not think you can legislate virtue

And someone asked me: what if someone makes their paycheck through drawing/participating in pornography? And I do not know what is more immoral: those whose subsistence depends on the creation immoral material, or those who use the immoral material in the immorality

Even if you don't think pornography is immoral, I'd be curious to see what you think about this

I think this might be more of a serious topic

The entire point of banning something is to legislate that which is immoral lol

Its equally Immoral but I would say that its more immoral to make pornography, since you're making souls into becoming sinful - basically subverting them

I mean

I dont think pornography is inherently immoral

I think there are problems within it

Of course you don't, liberal

okay

It's a job

Isn't pornography inherently degrading of women?

not necessarily

It can be

Depends what categories

And girls watch porn too

So what if its a job lmao

Just because its a job doesn't mean its not immoral

Well I dont think that it is immoral in the first place

Pornography is immoral because it promotes weakness, and the pursuit of immediate pleasure

If the society is drugged up on this, it will fail and die

You dont have to watch it if you dont want to

You have the freedom of choice