I have encountered happy agnostics before. Plenty of them. Not the ones who blab on and on about atheism though

Few genuinely godless people have a sincere, sophisticated understanding of the world around them. They rely on the internet for their self-worth.

Agnosticism is categorically different from godlessness, uncertainty isn't hubris or arrogance.

It's kinda lame to limit your view of the world to just the material, it makes you too reliant on it. Like the people outsourcing their self-esteem to Instagram.

Or people judging their self value only on their net worth

"What? You're telling me I should recognise there is a purpose greater than serving my own selfish interests?"

Thing is, you don't have to be an atheist to only pursue your own selfish interests. Like wizards, occultists, some popes, etc.

Are you Orthodox?

So, to me, atheism doesn't inherently lead to selfishness or egoism but it puts you in a vulnerable position

nah i wouldn't worship anyone

@Eoppa Not really, I'm currently studying the Kabbalah. I don't think popular religions are meant to serve the highest interest of their followers as a whole package

Define "highest interest"

The true "Will"

Well are you referring to something similar to the Pure Act that a classical Theist would describe

Crowley's definition is what I'm referring to

"What? You're telling me I should recognize there is a purpose greater than serving my own selfish interests?"
Reminder that God, which necessarily contains the Greatest Good, could only ever create Laws that are good for you to abide by! Anything that deviates from God's will for you is inherently not in your self-interest. Hedonism is not in your self-interest.

Yes.

@Ater Votum You are correct but there is an argument to be made whether the laws which are dictated to us by the popular institutions are the same as the whole of God's true will for you

```It is defined either as a person's grand destiny in life or as a moment-to-moment path of action that operates in perfect harmony with Nature.```
So more similar to the Final cause in natural law?

> crowley
i was not expecting this lmao

Mr Crowley, what they done in your head

I would like @alpi if he didn't have acringe pfp

@Eoppa Like Aristotle, right? I guess you could make a parallel but it's within a different context and much less concrete than the classic examples

i don't worship a god lol

Then why wouldn't Catholicism be in the highest interest if this is nearly a cc of it's ontology of natures.

@moira I want to debate you when I get off work then.

I'm off for now then

@Eoppa i refuse

Because one's true will in their life carries a different path for everyone. There wouldn't be an endless diversity if only a set number of behaviors were "good" and what the church doesn't want you to do is "bad". And I'm approaching this form a higher spiritual perspective, not an argument for material hedonism.

These things are also constantly in flux as different eras require different behaviors to move onward. This happens anyway, of course, but whoever is too rigid suffers the consequences

@Kichev yes, each person has their individual essence and form, this is part of the classical conception ever since Aristotle.

What's interesting about incorporating the 4 causes is that it provides a complete explanation that allows you to reach a full conclusion with context.

@Eoppa actually lets do this why not

first of all i would define religion as a systematization of your worship

but I would say I don't care about the definition of religions since, to me, the beliefs from the base are flawed and make no sense to me

the whole thing of worshipping magical concepts n all that is nonsensical, you could make up something completely new and say that's your new god or whatever the name of it would be

Whats the point of worshipping?

@Ater Votum I’m not so sure you’ve got room to be talking about profile pictures. Also, this is completely unrelated to the topic.

@moira morality and such in Christianity largely concern the natural law. There are endless writings on why and how we worship. Why don't we debate these foundations you speak of. What is your null hypothesis regarding atheism.

Wdym natural law