Message from @Alix
Discord ID: 497908140281561088
Meaning I agree, I think both of you could have stayed on a single point a little better but you're right he was guiding you in and out of diff subjects quickly
Doesn't make for good conversation
thats how you debate them, let them guide it to where they feel confident no matter the original, and keep up the work until you end up them wanting to leave or at the original point
Not sure who you mean by "them," and idk that can sometimes lead to understanding, but based on that comment it seems like your goal isn't mutual understanding but them wanting to leave
or back to square one like you say
The goal is for them to have nothing left to debate and to see your reasoning in the end
them leaving often means they have nothing left
if they admit you changed their POV, you certainly are a god
Do you think they see your reasoning in the end or do you think they are frustrated?
hahaha yeah for sure
I just think there's a subtle but crucial difference between debating for understanding and debating for winning
mutual compassion vs tribalism
good faith vs bad faith
not accusing you of being on either end of the spectrum btw just musing on this
I think many begin to, and both really, but many don't admit defeat. I debate for understanding initially, but should it come to it simply winning. If you can make them see your point at the start, amazing, but should you be diminished to what I was there, you simply debate to win, at that point they may have simply seen your point and refused to admit, or simply were always debating to win
bad for good really
I think that will make people dig their heels in more
You will end up with very stubborn debaters on both ends of the spectrum...which is exactly how we got here
here being the modern political climate
well I see the point
Problem with the modern climate is we have those that believe what their told by a mob, and those that believe in the truth and what they can find out themselves. They both see themselves are right and the other wrong, trick is understanding by winning
But you know both sides think that right? How do you not see that that behavior is mirrored by democrats and republicans, and is harmful?
Winning is inconsequential
winning is inconsequential if its traded
traded for what?
for a win on the other side
recently with the #walkaway people have been leaving the democratic party and spreading the word from endless right winged wins
its like warfare
you can't win by killing a soldier, you win by breaking an army
I guess, I don't see that as compelling evidence for what we're talking about. the #walkaway thing feels incredibly viral and unrelated to how many republican and democratic voters there actually are. There's also tons of reports that democratic voter registration is surging, does that count as winning? Why would that count as winning if the goal is a better america? We should identify goals for our country to move towards, and moving towards those goals should be "winning," not cucking the libs or whatever
I guess I'm just thrown off by the phrase winning. Feels incredibly juvenile, like politics are just sports that don't actually impact peoples lives.
well winning for one side would be a subjectively better america though may have its own problems, winning on the other side is subjectively better for america and may have its own problems
what problems do you want it the question
truueee can we talk about that? That's much more interesting to me
That is what I consider winning, not having the problems and systems I would rather not have
For sure I feel that, I just detest the use of the word win if that makes sense, feels so childish
but like what do you guys think are big problems of our time?
the Democratic Party
lol
let's be more specific maybe?
large goverment