and the situation

black people trying to get the same opportunities as whites by getting some extra help is far from being racist towards whites

because of...again...the power imbalance that has endured centuries in america

I think anyone who shows they could really succeed in college should be admitted, and if someone who shows they will succeed is not admitted, that's sorta wrong. But, I think the ones being weighed in the issue of race are the ones mostly who show they "may." The lower end of the admittance pool. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Yes it is because if I was more qualified than someone and they got to go to that college over me because they were black, is racism.

But how could you measure qualification? SAT scores and GPAs are often linked to several factors including stability at home, income, and how many generations a family has sent kids to college. All of those factors are also correlated with race.

So is it moreso that if two people are relatively close in academic excellence, they're more likely to admit the minorities?

exactly

It does not matter about race. It just matters about academics

it would have to be close to be acceptable

but our measurements of academics are flawed

From what I've seen of most colleges, you don't have to be fantastic academically to be admitted.

and imperfect

depends on the college

An economy cannot work with unqualified people getting the most college admissions

I'm not advocating for that

The higher end colleges are fewer in number

I'm advocating for "qualification" to take into account a person's entire experience, in which race would have an effect

But why should I have to pay for other people centuries ago that happened to be racist?

because the effects linger

if we had reached equality then no one would expect that of you

So the real solution to win over the minorities you're worried about is put in a ton of extra effort to prove you deserve that spot,

for an individual, you should always put in effort to prove you deserve that spot

So I should have to put in more effort because my skin colour is white? Judge me not by the colour of my skin, but the content of my character. - mlk

But if you do have more choices, and more of a capability, and another person has a lot more to overcome to really fight for that spot, how hard they fight to get there could be a lot more meaningful than how hard the privileged ones could have had to fight. Which I could understand weighing it by that

exactly

it's about seeing the holistic experience

I'm just sorta playin in the middle and dissecting the issue

for some black people, it's possible their experience was not compelling and they had it easy

but that is *less likely*

and that's the point

But I don't think it should be weighed on race alone because it is sort of too simplistic. Because many minorities do have a lot of options and are on a level playing field with education and all. But if you come from areas of more poverty and all, and are in high minority schools and all, yeah, I could see it

no one said race alone

you see my point though

I know, I'm just dissecting it as I said. Playin the middle. Your opposing debator sees it as race alone.

mhmm

And I'm not happy that race should be considered, obviously in a perfect world it wouldn't be necessary. But we aren't there yet

As someone with bipolar, I've sort of fucked up my life a few times. And those parts of my life, if looked at without context or information, would show that I would not succeed in college and that many others would be better suited. But being on medication, I'm able to pass all of my classes with ease and show an excellence in ability to succeed. Without my condition being taken account, I can see how I would be underprivileged in that aspect. And would want them to take into account my personal life experience and weigh me by what I've had to overcome.

Right, and sometimes there's no general essay for a college application (my current college didn't have one), but more targeted essay questions, so you can't even describe that situation. And it obviously isn't reflected in your GPA and SATs that you have a condition, so your perseverance, arguably the most important part of a college application, is not visible.

And for college admission offices, they couldn't possibly have the time to learn everyone's backstory, so looking into race is a cheap and dirty way to get some idea of what they may have gone through, and shouldn't be ignored because race isn't ignored in society

it's a fundamentally imperfect system because it affords swaths of people more leverage than others, but the intent of the system is to help the downtrodden, which is virtuous