Message from @Malcolm the Seceder
Discord ID: 481132286419664896
This is Calvinism
Justification and Sanctification are theological words and have to be understood in their theological contexts
I defy you to find the words "true faith" in a real Bible.
I have already given you a passage from Scripture which talks about good and bad fruits
Christ was talking about the Pharisees who had the externals of faith but were not true believers and that was shown by their fruits
He was warning about false prophets.
Exactly
They have plenty of wonderful works.
And miracles
And they call him "Lord Lord"
Indeed but they were not true believers
And that is what Christ is saying: they're fruits were not the fruit of the Spirit
They did not have true faith
But they did have lordship salvation.
No they didn't
They had faith in their works.
Look, Lordship salvation is a term that people started using in the 20th century. So just ignore that. The doctrine is that Christ is one's Lord and Saviour
Not just a Saviour but also Lord
He's Lord no matter what you say or do. He's YOUR Lord, no matter what you think.
You don't make him anything.
Yes, Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords that's not what we're talking about
We are talking about the life of the believer
I'm talking about who he is.
Well that's not what we've been talking about
That's why we're still talking - because we lost each other on basic terms.
I'm happy to accept any term in the context it is used in the Authorised Version.
Lordship Salvation is a term which refers to a specific controversy which happened in North American evangelical churches
So let's not use it here as it's a distraction
Basically the issue at stake was whether when someone comes to saving faith Christ was only his saviour or also his lord in the sense that the believer was brought into conformity to the moral law, which is the old calvinist view as shown in the Westminster Standards. Some were denying that
We are brought into conformity with the law.
We are sanctified.
Of course Christ is Lord of lords but that wasn't the issue being debated
Yes that's what I've been saying!
But when Mr Lordship arrives, he says that he demands that you make a false promise to do works of the law, or you go to hell.
I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Either you believe in sanctification or you don't
I believe in 100% sanctification. 5% won't do, neither will 99.5%
We don't have 100% until we're in Heaven
I have 100% in heaven already. That's salvation.