Message from @Xinyue
Discord ID: 526981172710866965
3rd position emerged from the acknowledgement that capitalism *as per usual* doesn't work, doesn't work for the benefit of the people, but at the same time from the rejection of socialism and communism. It either cynically put forward the lie, or believes itself the lie, that class collaboration is possible.
@Xinyue it didn't reject socialism, just marxism, so i guess communism and others related
but syndicalism is still on the table
@πΏπππππππππππ π²πππππππππ Agreed, their main historical demonstration was to become co-opted
yeah franco took over
I would liked to see the evolution of Rivera and the Falange, too bad Franco cucked it out
@Bee dude I've read the Falangist "manifesto" (21 point something-or-other?) and it still explicitly recognises the capitalist class as part of its vision, that is not socialism, in socialism there **is no capitalist class**
its better than the abject horror that is La Dottrina del Fascismo, but only so much
depends on the definition
fascism still sees international financier capitalism as a cancer
Embrace
corporate
no
socialism
NO
π©
ffs
yes
YES
socialism = worker ownership of the *bloody* ***MEANS OF PRODUCTION***
Socialism is whatever I say it is
Pinochet was a socialist
ewww
go away
it's late and i'm shitposting
so what do you think is better, the workers acting directly with the state, or the state acting as a mediator between the workers and the businesses/corporations to get fair wages and conditions etc etc
When the state owns the means of production what it is called?
@Bee obviously the workers utilising soviets/councils to self-manage the public affair in the total absence of business/corporate/capitalist class
what if its a small business
i wouldn't consider them elite
nothing that worker-coops can't do as well. petty bourgeois business is meaningless, obsolete.
i only consider petty bourgeois as trust fund kids and upper middle class
there's no need to retain petty bourgeois forms of property
we can directly transition to public, cooperative and personal property
can a family still have personal private land that they're had for generations or nah
i feel like people would work their own land and would have more pride working on it if they knew it was theirs, etc
same with any other small business
corporate can get fucked tho
I think the whole issue of the land is sentimental at best. As long as there is housing, and the housing distributed is *yours and cannot be taken away,* that is good enough.
why should that housing be then used to cultivate capital?
why?
it doesn't make sense from a *true anti-capitalist position*