why is that wron

wrong

i was just kidding about the China thing

top down control of the society in the hands of social engineers to me doesn't sound like a great idea

Well it reduces the human spirit to quite abysmal levels. I think that human beings ought to be as free as possible - not so free as to trample on other human beings of course - and they certainly should live in a society where they are capable of accessing information as they please and make decisions for themselves within the context of that society as effectively as possible.

we should live in a *society*?

what is the human spirit, why should humans have freedom

Human spirit was too vague a term, true

Humans should have freedom because in very real sense life consists in freedom. If you are deprived of all your freedom, you cease to have life in any real sense.

Wut

lol

You are still alive

Even if you are a slave

I mean yeah, you are alive, but you might not want to be.

It may be uncomfortable but you are not dead

Of course, deprived of all freedom, you wouldn't even be able to kill yourself.

Why does that matter

you have life even if you can't move and express emotions

you can still wanna live

Why do the emotions matter

i meant that medically

if you are disabled say

I mean Huff there's no real clear answer to any of these questions. We all have our opinions on these matters and our opinions are probably in large part determined by our particular conditions and life history. There very likely isn't going to be an objective standard to be found for the questions you ask.

So there is no objective standard

For questions dependent on subjects' conditions of life, yes

Good

The want of a system where there is freedom for individuals comes from a subjective standard

It does, yes

Tell me what you guys think about this... One needs their *freedoms* to fulfill their *responsibilities*.

No, not really

One has freedoms, and responsibilities, and both overlap here and there but not in all areas

You have *freedom* so you can for example Articulate your Thoughts and convince the Society against a Hole that you see in the Future we might fall into.

That's why you have Freedom of Speech

for example

Well yes, freedom is important in that you can not only help yourself in reaching goals and avoiding pitfalls, but to help others in this way also

If you are robbed of freedom, you can do neither

Of course its built into us, the desire for freedom - the more degrees of freedom an organism has, the better for its chances of survival. In this sense, our desire for freedom has an objective basis.

Yes, you have certain responsibilities towards yourself and your family as well, so we have Freedom of Religion.. so you can fulfill your duties towards your God

Freedoms exist so that you are allowed a Space to fulfill your duties and responsibilities, to yourself, your family and your society.

Well yes but not just that, but also your aspirations

Its not solely about duties