Message from @Xinyue

Discord ID: 530243978550050816


2019-01-03 04:35:29 UTC  

2019-01-03 04:35:32 UTC  

and what's next? a COMMUNIST FINNISH GUY IS GOING TO TEACH THIS VENEZUELAN DUDE, SOME HISTORY OF VENEZUELA?

2019-01-03 04:35:36 UTC  

AHHAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAAHHAAHHA

2019-01-03 04:36:20 UTC  

I even know Mostly or nearly the most part of the History of my country so if you want to give me a History lesson of my OWN COUNTRY? NO THANKS I ALREADY READ IT

2019-01-03 04:37:03 UTC  

also in the 2 Coup d'etats Chávez organized in 1992, he killed between 100-300 Civilians by cross fire

2019-01-03 04:37:38 UTC  

Well, the legacy of Chavez can be broken down to a number of different aspects. First, there are the goals; roughly speaking these can be summarised in the "Communal State" concept which Chavez outlined as the end point of the "Bolivarian process". Chavez (and esp. his successor) have been incredibly vague about this process and what exactly it entails, but there are a number of recurring themes:

a) democratic institutions strengthened via increased importance of the communal councils
b) popular initiative strengthened via the increased prevalence of worker-cooperative economics
c) the gradual realisation of "socialism in the 21st century" via these two methods which will converge and result in the "Communal State"

And for all their current troubles, the PSUV was making progress. Inflation rates were at historic lows, poverty came down very very hard, HDI went up, education levels went up, life expectancy went up and GDP went up rather nicely. Numerous cooperatives were launched, communal organisations get increased authority and in general the trend was up.

Then came the 2010s and, with it, the age of hardship.

2019-01-03 04:38:34 UTC  

for real?

2019-01-03 04:38:36 UTC  

really

2019-01-03 04:38:44 UTC  

yes this is what data would let us surmise

2019-01-03 04:39:00 UTC  

you are telling me about Chávez Period when i know what he even did before politics?

2019-01-03 04:39:02 UTC  

for real?

2019-01-03 04:39:04 UTC  

...

2019-01-03 04:39:08 UTC  

you are lost

2019-01-03 04:39:22 UTC  

there's no point debating with you, it's like Debating with a Chavista in my country

2019-01-03 04:39:34 UTC  

they are STUPID AS HELL, they are Fanatical debotes to Chávez

2019-01-03 04:39:41 UTC  

you asked me for the legacy of the Chavez period and I gave you it with context of what I know of it, its aims and its most general outlook (which, due to inability to read or speak spanish, is limited)

2019-01-03 04:39:44 UTC  

AND PLENTY OF THEM BELIEVE THAT CHÁVEZ IS A GOD

2019-01-03 04:39:49 UTC  

I'M NOT KIDDING

2019-01-03 04:39:58 UTC  

THEY EVEN BUILT A CHAPPEL IN HIS NAME

2019-01-03 04:40:13 UTC  

It is called "Capilla Santo Hugo Chávez"

2019-01-03 04:40:15 UTC  

I'm not a Chavista though, you might not want to project your preconceptions based on experiences in your country upon me

2019-01-03 04:40:37 UTC  

I tend to think that Chavism is *too soft*

2019-01-03 04:40:43 UTC  

soft?

2019-01-03 04:40:54 UTC  

it destroyed my country in 20 years

2019-01-03 04:40:56 UTC  

it didn't liquidate the capitalist sector of the economy, it did very little to annex it

2019-01-03 04:41:00 UTC  

it did

2019-01-03 04:41:14 UTC  

you guys keep saying that it destroyed your country in 20 years but you have absolutely no argument for it; this is pure propaganda point

2019-01-03 04:41:17 UTC  

when he started to take control over the main Oil company wich is

2019-01-03 04:41:22 UTC  

PDVSA

2019-01-03 04:41:33 UTC  

he fired 20.000 people that were working there

2019-01-03 04:41:36 UTC  

in wich

2019-01-03 04:41:41 UTC  

My parents are INCLUIDED

2019-01-03 04:41:54 UTC  

this people were very competent, and were against Chávez Politics

2019-01-03 04:42:21 UTC  

before PDVSA was taken by the Proletariat, it was a very competent company and they had a meritocracy system

2019-01-03 04:42:50 UTC  

they had a supervisor checking every single worker job so they can know their perfomance

2019-01-03 04:43:09 UTC  

one of the slogans of the company was "The Meritocracy is Excellence"

2019-01-03 04:43:54 UTC  

so back to the point, when this professional personal was fired from their jobs, Chávez simply give jobs for people that doesn't even know how to work in a Oil Company

2019-01-03 04:44:03 UTC  

as you can see, HDI and education both gained tremendously during the Chavez administration, and that inflation rates were at an all time low; further, poverty went down significantly and the country was making real progress. Sure, these were due to gradualist socialist policies rather than the clear-cut, transformative socialism of actual substance, but its still noteworthy and you cannot dismiss it as "destroying" your country.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/507035890640486411/530244931634331679/venezuela1.png

2019-01-03 04:44:05 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/507035890640486411/530244940790497301/Venezuela_historic_inflation_vs._oil_revenue.png

2019-01-03 04:44:07 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/507035890640486411/530244947710967808/INE_Venezuela_poverty_rate_1990_to_2013.png

2019-01-03 04:44:13 UTC  

in fact PDVSA's OIL production lowed to 1.500.000 Barrels