Yeah. But ultimately the strategy should be to throw whatever arguments we can against the wall and see what sticks.

Dishonest arguments that win are better than honest ones that lose.

You will regret that precedence.

Why's that, TxDeluxe?

It seems like the left is using all sorts of sneaky underhanded bullshit tactics like lying to everyone's faces and saying, "Oh we don't want to *ban* guns outright, you're crazy!"

What's wrong with responding to them in kind?

If they want to play fair, they're welcome to start any time. Until then, the right is playing dirty.

Or it should be, at least.

@TxDeluxe
I regret losing more.

Politics is not a game of honesty

> muh principles and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

There's no reward to "losing honorably"

Would be nice if it was. I'm all for a cease-fire when it comes to the sophistry.
But I hate the idea of lying down and taking it while the other side is allowed to use every dirty trick in the book.
Take their behavior and hold them to it.

I am not arguing the desire to fight fire with fire politically. I am arguing legally. Dilution of Constitutional rights is what allows progressive actions like that. Furthering the dilution for a short-term gain will only help them when they have the power to implement their legislation later. Legal precedence can not be reversed, or at least not easily.

There's a difference between principles and making an idol of the process

I flatter myself calling myself a fairly principled person, but I have zero issue violating norms to protect my people and my rights

Oh, no, just, when you're fighting for gun rights, tell them it's all about privacy. Don't admit you don't actually believe in 'the right to privacy'.

It's kinda like when you're at the dealership buying a car. Never admit something that would be disadventageous to you.

But still, when it comes time to vote on whether to actually create a 'right to privacy' and fuck up the constitutional rights or whatever, argue against that.

If they point out your contradiction, then whatever. Politicians lie.

The left does the same shit all the time.

Like I said though I'm 100% for a cease-fire.

Sure, we all are. But pretending like that's a possibility is being blind to the State of Affairs that have existed for the last 50 years

Yeah it's pretty shit.

Then I agree @Mercury. I would just be very sober about opening up that can of worms, because by that precedent they could extend rights to privacy onto immigration easily. Or the bureaucrats use it as a blanket to protect ALL of their information, because they are also "private citizens".

If your principles keep losing, get better principles.

@Unironic Ohio Supremecist really? Majority rules principles???

I'd argue the state of affairs that have existed since the dawn of democracy. People have always tried to slime their way through it, rather than just being honest and having a fair dialog.

The problem isn't principles. The problem is the right accepts the lies that are politicians tell us to enable them to stab Us in the back

@TxDeluxe
Literally just whatever wins and gets the policies I want in place.

@Unironic Ohio Supremecist Hillary approves this message

Especially in the current environment restraint gets you nothing. It's not as though the left is going to look at your Administration and admire your geniality and somehow take that apply that to their new order

@TxDeluxe
Lol. Okay. Maybe the right needs a few more Hillary Clinton's.

The right already has plenty of Hillary Clinton's. The difference is that we tolerate not only the moral depravity of are Hillary Clinton's but the absolute betrayal of all our quote on quote principles

I think the right needs a George Soros.

That'd be fun to see.

Free guns for everyone yayyy

Massive funding for border patrolling militias

Endless funding for shills for the right, and super loud think-tanks.

Way da billionaires at?

@A. Spader
Lol. The right has plenty of neoliberals. I obviously wasn't endorsing her ideology. But... yeah. We could use a lot more of the ruthless real politik that won every major battle since the 40's.

I don't get how you can hate someone for doing that and be perfectly fine with being identical to the person. You will only get your way for as long as you are in charge. Then it is a clean slate when the next guy comes in. It is like ctrl-alt-delete on our structure every voting cycle. There is no durability whatsoever.

@TxDeluxe
Then eliminate elections? Based.

Not my point @Unironic Ohio Supremecist. My point is the left demands better of their polticians and suffers no traitors the way the right does

So we are completely utopian then. I just say give everyone their own country