I'm all for immigration reform

let's not bring people in who are incompatible with our country, absolutely

and for those already here?

if they are here illegally, deport them

if they are here legally, they are citizens and are afforded all the rights of the constitution

Even if they want to upend the constitution?

Neat

if they break a law, they should be prosecuted

it's not against the law to disagree with our goverment

in fact, it is encouraged

first amendment, baby

How long do you think that will last

what? the constitution?

People who vaule liberty and freedom.

being culturally dominant.

I respect you.

well there are always going to be tradeoffs regarding liberty and freedom

many we agree to

for instance, I do not have the freedom to murder you

and i think most people would agree to that

That's basic Perennial Natural Law.

that's philosophy vs written law

Law is a type of Philosphy Enforced.

and I chose something FAR at the end of the spectrum

lets take something a bit cloudier

i do not have the liberty to board an airplane immediately and without vetting procedures

What's Far end of the spectrum to you

might be the Centrist Posistion in another culture.

murder is far end... boarding planes is mid range

police state would be the other end

Murder is Univserally Wrong

it has no spectrum

Unless justified through a moral pretext

it is Universally wrong.

Depends on the culture.

jesus christ we're talking about the balance of liberty in the west

i'm just saying it's a spectrum

you talk about "valuing liberty and freedom"

and you are talking about Freedom vs Security?

like, I value have the liberty to criticize the goverment, but I'm fine with being patted down before getting on an airplane

yes freedom vs security is a big one