Message from @Indigo

Discord ID: 671821609169846293


2020-01-28 20:52:23 UTC  

okay, I'll ask...
what did you choke on when you read the description??? 😲

2020-01-28 20:52:25 UTC  

I try to avoid ideology. If forced to classify I'd say antideutsche communist. But I focus much more on critical theory than on orthodox marxism

2020-01-28 20:52:39 UTC  

what do you mean by "Antideutsche"?

2020-01-28 20:53:49 UTC  

1. antideutsche is a particular brand of antifascism that began in germany, mostly in response to reunification and in contrast to anti-imp movements of the late 20th century.

2. sorry to admit, didn't actually choke :c

2020-01-28 20:55:07 UTC  

interesting. are you more of a "statist" communist or lean more on the libertarian side?

2020-01-28 20:55:40 UTC  

libertarian 'left' is an oxymoron

2020-01-28 20:55:52 UTC  

perhaps, im still interested

2020-01-28 20:55:54 UTC  

I'm against authoritarianism. The question of the state is rather complex and historical.

liberatarian originated in the left.

2020-01-28 20:56:14 UTC  

doesn't make it right

2020-01-28 20:56:17 UTC  

anarchism is also an explicitly left movement.

2020-01-28 20:56:35 UTC  

how can a society be anarchist if there's an enforced restricted economy?

2020-01-28 20:56:53 UTC  

I think that's a bit of a loaded question, because you've already (falsely) defined "left" within it.

2020-01-28 20:57:34 UTC  

most socialists are focused on the goal of redistributing the means of production and commonly owned means of production

2020-01-28 20:57:39 UTC  

its a quite restricted economy compared to others

2020-01-28 20:57:52 UTC  

wouldnt the needed enforcement of that require a state?

2020-01-28 20:58:19 UTC  

I will also say that anarchism is focused on the destruction of hierarchies. This includes all hierarchies, not just economic hierarchy. As such, any self-proclaimed anarchism that fails to meet such criterion is ignoring the political project of anarchism.

2020-01-28 20:58:55 UTC  

anarchy as a term simply means the lack of authority and/or laws or rules

2020-01-28 20:58:56 UTC  

Economic hierarchy including but not limited to: private ownership of capital, waged labor, exploitation, etc.

2020-01-28 20:59:03 UTC  

the less rules you have, the more anarchy you have

2020-01-28 20:59:13 UTC  

and the more hierarchy

2020-01-28 20:59:29 UTC  

hierarchy exists everywhere

2020-01-28 20:59:37 UTC  

Wikipedia is an incomplete assessment, but it's even written there into the first sentence.

2020-01-28 20:59:40 UTC  

in all animals

2020-01-28 20:59:55 UTC  

Hierarchies are fairly natural. Denying them tends to mean informal hierarchies of social status spring up.

2020-01-28 21:00:20 UTC  

it's the new anti science from anarchist kiddies on the left

2020-01-28 21:00:22 UTC  

the abolishment of all hierarchy is utopian, yes

2020-01-28 21:00:24 UTC  

We're not really discussing hierarchy rn. Just clarifying the definition of anarchism.

2020-01-28 21:00:34 UTC  

If you would rather discuss that topic, we can try.

2020-01-28 21:00:57 UTC  

you need a state to enforce anti-hierarchy @lolo

2020-01-28 21:01:21 UTC  

the wikipedia mentions "voluntary institutions". how can socialism be voluntary? if it's voluntary, it means you can opt out?

2020-01-28 21:01:21 UTC  

that itself is needing a hierarchy to enforce anti hierarchy

2020-01-28 21:01:32 UTC  

It would be prudent to first start with an evaluation of neo-positivist objectifications of "natural law" and how they reproduce the given state of affairs, disguising social opposition as immutable and creating a one-dimensional system of thought and confirmation of thought.

2020-01-28 21:01:41 UTC  

capitalism is a voluntary institution

2020-01-28 21:02:17 UTC  

you can be a fucking commie or a anarchist or an anarcho syndicalist if you like

2020-01-28 21:02:21 UTC  

Can we kinda stick to a more coherent conversation? It's very difficult to keep up with 2+ people spewing their thoughts without any structure. It's not a constructive form of communication.

2020-01-28 21:02:38 UTC  

you can start with indigo

2020-01-28 21:02:40 UTC  

i need to take a shower

2020-01-28 21:02:54 UTC  

Okay, then indigo, can you respond to my lead in?

2020-01-28 21:03:05 UTC  

if you're interested in discussing hierarchy and "naturalness"

2020-01-28 21:04:25 UTC  

you can make a company with whatever system you like, whether it be anarcho syndicalist or communist in a capitalism.

The opposite is not true in those leftist utopias.