I'm arguing from Nietzsche's own perspective here, by the way; you used suffering as a metric for higher goals and I'm telling you it isn't.

Beanboozled

Both men could "suffer' equally to acquire the house and not be the same man in practice or thought.

This is the issue he took with Schopenhauer's "altruism" as an absolute measure.

i think you missed his original point entirely

I said not all suffering is worth it

You're changing your argument.

"if you want to achieve your goals, it will require suffering and that suffering will be good for you after you've achieved your goal"

a higher man obtains his goals through suffering

As can a last man.

So suffering is not the measure by which you should assess your goals.

yes but not all suffering is equal

@Five, Seven, and Two fogazzi philosopher

But equal suffering does not make for equal goals.

I dont deny that

@metal_mango You're drunk, I'll let this slide.

i sobered up, but bye

I thought you were going to sleep @metal_mango lol

i thought so too

lol

ok bye lol

👋

Are you saying that you don't need to suffer in order to achieve a lofty goal?

cuz then I disagree

No, I'm saying that suffering does not ensure a lofty goal.

I agree with that

I said the opposite

A lofty goal requires suffering

And suffering does not make a goal worthwhile or is even good for goals, either.

Indeed

wait

...is even good for goals?

As in suffering does not necessarily serve as a good or grounds for good in a goal you wish to achieve.

Yes but suffering is good and is apart of the higher mans goal

The last man can suffer a fools errand

If you're trying to paint a landscape and you trip on the doorframe of your house, and sprain your ankle, is that suffering either good or a part of the higher man's goal?

no ive already said not all suffering is equal

But then you say suffering is good...

Suffering in order to achieve a lofty goal is required and THAT suffering is good

not all suffering

But would you have tripped were you not coming and going so much to finish your painting? Is that required and/or good?