If it was a patriarchy, would your way including a woman be as bad as it is today?

@PhysX Meh, i've been too long on this path to say i'm not MGTOW.

And i can get a blowjob anytime i want for a few bucks, like a redneck moron

@PhysX Honestly I would probably shift my goal to include raising a son. As was common for many great men in much much older times. They had their kids and raised them and then went on their lifes purpose.

No the women know their place, all sunshine and rainbows, in quotes

Then what's the problem?

@PhysX even in the ultra patriachy I would still go my own way... I would not want to take care of some woman-child

@felldie1496 Thats the way my dude

@Kragt

and such ultrapatriarchal socity will most likely be repressive for men too

@Kragt Thats what I am talking about, if we have ifs, we would ride them. I dont know maybe its just me, but i dont want children i would ride this wave even if we didnt live in this feminist purgatory

@Z-Man (soon to be Y A) I respect that

You don't HAVE to be MGTOW to be or do great things.
MGTOW love to point at Tesla and DaVinci, and then skip over Darwin, and Ghengis Khan.
It helps certainly if a family or children would hurt your goals then going MGTOW would be the better course.
I already do and will always learn from the red pill.

Also, in that ultra patriarchy I would know that she would only stay with me because all other options are gone, I would see that is coldly transactional so... I pass

Damn i wish i found this 10 years ago. I had pretty mgtow years as a dive intructor but voluntarily enslaved myself again. I am really tired of the fighting. Last 2 moths was me against the world and thats not much of an exageration. mgtow ideas are very frowned upon in europe

Tesla is the man though.

@PhysX what do you respect?

I get your point @Kragt . I am not trying to define MGTOW, the very definition says do your own thing. I just wanted to say my thoughts on children and overall attitude

the truth

@Z-Man (soon to be Y A) I respect that you would go your own way even if the society was not so fucked up

@Clown Europe as a whole is extremely collective compared to the US. MGTOW focuses strongly on individuality and without the extremes seen in Canada and Australia pushing the need to talk about MGTOW it might be harder to talk about.
But don't be fooled MGTOW knowledge and the red pill are frowned upon here too.

@PhysX taking care of kids? OK... taking care of pets? of course. but taking care of another adult..... NO

Not to compare, but I am in Europe ATM too

only if it was family or I was paid to do so, I would have no problem in taking care of sick sibling/parents

@Z-Man (soon to be Y A) Exactly, i do like pets very much so

@PhysX I understand. Just when you use the phrase 'one blowjob from getting back on the plantation' it connotates things I don't think you mean to say.
It's not just about men on strike that phrase talks about how once given attention or a small bone men will run back.
Your question would be better with the 'men on marriage strike' approach to talking about MGTOW numbers.

oh @Clown don't forget to read <#540414510541045772> either.

marriage wont come back.. but male parentshood will return

and first it would have to happens that DNA testing is a regular thing

and that renouncing custody would be possible

@Kragt Well in essence i do not harbor any malice in my message. But I honestly think that it is possible to seperate us man into reactionary MGTOW, and lets say fundamental MGTOW. Wouldnt you agree, are you perhaps in a relationship at this moment{no judgement}

Nah, I am and will be single for the rest of my life. The conditions to make me want to have a family do not exist and likely will never exist. I might change my mind if such a thing happens but I fully expect it not to. Much how TFM talks about the MRA's 'I wish them the best and that I am wrong, but I expect their approach will never work' - paraphrased.

I also make a distinction similar to that.
I think of it more in terms of the higher man MGTOW who sees it as part of his self-actualization and the human animal MGTOW who only wants to avoid the pain of the current enviorment. @PhysX

I mostly recognize my own flaws and try to never forget them.

also.. in recent times the birthrate isnt that much higher in most of middle east there was a large spike in the 80s yes but not so much now

and what happened then? a reassertion of fundamentalism

@Kragt Yes kragt, I do agree with you, I would like to see myself an "higher MGTOW" chasing his goal, which I trully strive for everyday. But family and children are out of my formula, and have been before i found MGTOW. Its just how I am, I think.

basically the societie became more backwards, more in line to feudal times

Im going live with a Polish MGTOW

Mediterranean pierogies.. nice

@PhysX Agreed, like I said earlier for some men MGTOW is part of their self-actualization. Good on you!

@Kragt Exactly, I wish you success

gah!