@Reaper Thats true, but it is still possible. and the universe is so big that almost anything can be possible

Because I don't want to just benefit myself from mgtow. I want the ideology to endure

especially on the qauntum level

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon It would be benifitial if that happened, the base point is people with similar values tend to migrate towards one another, that is how commuties of old formed.

@agogeghost Yeah, I guess my goal is to control these men, which is why I'm not a Libertarian anymore. Probably more of a Paleo-conservative. I believe individualism can only be sustained under a strong collective. MGTOW to me is a subversive element against the collective of men. Obviously, they have valid reasons, but solutions that aren't really solutions.

@Punished Korgoth no matter how much complexity you ad to the system, the fact that our little corner can operate in the way that it does can be no co-incidence

Communities of old didn't form from ideas, they formed from families

The family is the smallest unit of society, and since families break apart more these days, society is becoming increasingly dysfunctional

@AllThingsExpendable I do agree with you. As a civilization, if 30% or more of all men went MGTOW, it would be a disaster.

There would be a non-father tax created.

@AllThingsExpendable I do agree to a point, obviously if men don't procreate that would be disastrous for a society, however, personally, and in my opinion most MGTOW are reluctant, and are only MGTOW because the legal system is so fucked up

@agogeghost I also want to say that there will obviously be exceptions. To control all men or all people is never the answer, but most and most will follow something anyways.

@AllThingsExpendable However, in my mind. I don't think there should be a state at all or minimal (police/courts/military). The individual is the authority in their own life.

but it's also not my job to uphold a society that hates men so

I think as much as most MGTOW have their eyes open to many truths, if you believe our societies have been brought to this point by chance (all at the same time might I add) you are still extremely naive and will be taken advantage of more in the future

@Reaper Agreed.

^

@Reaper It can. The probability of a habitable world being formed is not zero

@Reaper it happened due to the societal cycle

@agogeghost I just don't find that idea that reasonable in reality. It's an abstract concept that educated people like to play with.

@agogeghost Man of my own mind on that. If you read some Jefferson, Madison, and Mason you'll see point along the very same line.

We've been too long in easy times

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon but why does the cycle exist?

@Reaper because of human nature

women get rights when life is easy, then women make it hard lol

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon so what makes man's nature as it is? Chance?

@Reaper sexual reproduction

That is the source of everything happening in human society

@Atomic Andy Yeah. I agree on that. Legal system needs to be changed, but unlikely. Maybe a collapse would fix that.

The absolute source

fingers crossed

And evolution

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon it's still doesn't explain why the whole world's cycles have aligned

At some point it is only logical to consider callusion

@Reaper but I've identified the source, and we can't stop it but there are things we could do

@AllThingsExpendable I am for a totally free market with no state to allow for the most individual progress and thus collective advancement. I agree it will never take place, maybe after a collapse a return to minanarchism will occur but it will grow out of control again. Human nature is weakness. I don't see a society opting out of procreation. People will always make babies. I do see taxes placed on men and women not having kids.

its the jews

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon man's nature is 1 aspect, the manipulation of man's nature is the bigger role imo

@AllThingsExpendable So your agreement with mgtow ends with "the legal system is misandrist?"

You manipulate mens nature by appealing to their self interest

@agogeghost Yeah, that I agree.