Message from @Death in June

Discord ID: 673486926317223942


2020-02-02 11:10:27 UTC  

the incentives associated with it

2020-02-02 11:11:00 UTC  

a less "meritorious" can be superior to a more meritorious one if the incentives associated with it are better

2020-02-02 11:11:32 UTC  

"better" ha
Good luck with figuring out what's "better"

2020-02-02 11:11:46 UTC  

well i mean sure that can be difficult

2020-02-02 11:12:07 UTC  

but unless you're just apathetic to what hierarchies there are and/or how you would like them to be you have some conception of what is better

2020-02-02 11:13:32 UTC  

so like if i were to compare a system wherein the highest authority is embodied by a hereditary monarch as opposed to capital and by extension those who hold the most of it

2020-02-02 11:13:40 UTC  

the latter might be more meritorious

2020-02-02 11:14:06 UTC  

in the sense that the people who comprise it are probably going to be on average better capitalists than the monarch would be a statesman

2020-02-02 11:14:15 UTC  

however the incentives associated with the former are arguably better

2020-02-02 11:14:30 UTC  

I mean if you place meritocracy as the highest value... I really don't

2020-02-02 11:14:43 UTC  

because in that situation the monarch is incentivized to care about the health of the sovereign as a whole and in the long term as well

2020-02-02 11:14:58 UTC  

In theory perhaps.

2020-02-02 11:15:11 UTC  

though i would add a caveat that in an absolute monarchy at least the incentives can become perverse if the monarch is too incompetent

2020-02-02 11:15:12 UTC  

But there is a reason why Monarchies fell.

2020-02-02 11:15:23 UTC  

but i mean of course we aren't subject to absolute rule by capital either

2020-02-02 11:15:36 UTC  

so a more fitting comparison would be a monarchy similar to say morocco

2020-02-02 11:16:09 UTC  

i think it's because they were dealt two major blows

2020-02-02 11:16:11 UTC  

Undoubtedly so, however the monarchy system's fatal flaw is the idea that everyone in the line of descendants upholds the health of the sovereignty as a whole. It has no ability to correct for incompetence in the event of a terrible leader by awarding authority based solely upon heredity.

2020-02-02 11:16:20 UTC  

one, from the ascent of capitalism, the bourgeoisie, and liberalism

2020-02-02 11:16:29 UTC  

and then from WW1

2020-02-02 11:16:36 UTC  

and perhaps you could say WW2 to an extent as well

2020-02-02 11:16:44 UTC  

sure i agree with that

2020-02-02 11:17:26 UTC  

to an extent at least

2020-02-02 11:17:36 UTC  

Yes. Nepotism would be the fall to a system that devalues meritocracy.

2020-02-02 11:17:41 UTC  

an elective monarchy might be preferable

2020-02-02 11:17:52 UTC  

but the thing is is that nepotism is restricted

2020-02-02 11:18:23 UTC  

because it's not in the interests of the monarch to allow for the health of the institutions that support the sovereign to be compromised by such things

2020-02-02 11:18:39 UTC  

and often they have a fair degree of authority to stamp out such things

2020-02-02 11:18:51 UTC  

i mean of course they might be nepotistic toward their family

2020-02-02 11:19:22 UTC  

but there would be many more situations in which nepotism would be more viable under a more diffuse system of power

2020-02-02 11:19:49 UTC  

A system of elective monarchy with restrictions on nepotism, which also upholds the interests of the sovereign, is essentially the idea behind a Democratic Republic.

2020-02-02 11:20:28 UTC  

if you really stretch the concept of what a monarch is sure

2020-02-02 11:20:46 UTC  

True, but the very idea of an "elective monarchy" is a stretch in itself

2020-02-02 11:20:58 UTC  

At that point you're just arguing over term limits

2020-02-02 11:21:06 UTC  

but the problem is that like an american president is only concerned about the effects their policies will have at most 4 years into the future

2020-02-02 11:21:21 UTC  

and of course the system is also entropic

2020-02-02 11:21:35 UTC  

the more the president matters the less coherent the system is in the long term as well

2020-02-02 11:21:42 UTC  

since it produces constant changes in leadership

2020-02-02 11:22:45 UTC  

I wouldn't be opposed to scrapping term limits if the people had the right to hold an emergency vote of removal once for every 4 years.

2020-02-02 11:23:06 UTC  

It still affords the swiftest means for correction. 8 Years is the most a president can serve in their position, with a considerable election every 4 years in which the public if afforded the ability to elect a replacement if necessary.

2020-02-02 11:23:37 UTC  

But I'll agree, the constant changes in leadership by two parties with opposing viewpoints can be terrible for long-term policies.