i'm telling you what the science says

they're not

They are

"random animals" are essential to our surivival

they're what make nature cycles work

And we can work out how to survive like we always have

yes, by limiting our population

No

We've never needed to limit population to survive

that's because limiting population was never the pressure before

It's always been a pressure

no

What are you talking about?

the pressure previously was having enough numbers to survive

go check your population graphs

No.

Population in the past wasn't easier to manage.

It caused massive problems.

it was self-managing

No it really wasn't.

Why do you think people used to starve more and plagues happened?

Not self managing at all.

population wasn't kept low by starvation and plague

Who said that?

you just implied it

No

population was kept low by very high death rates across the board

Population was low because infant mortality was through the roof

yes

I just pointed out that population in the past didn't mean happy easy lives

Where as you seem to think that limiting the population will somehow equal that

The idea that we need to limit human population for us to survive or for us to prosper is maddening. And deserves to be disregarded to the pile of authoritarian ideas post haste.

if you allow population to continue going up at the current rate, you will have to look forward to an authoritarian existence where every bit of your consumption is highly restricted and centrally managed. You'll live in a shoebox with little/no freedoms

Nonsense.

I'm not going to support that, nor anyone who is pushing for it

It's not nonsense, it's inevitable

That's the kind of mindset that leads us to an authoritarian existence where every bit of your consumption is highly restricted and centrally managed.

Your first proposal is literally to start doing that.

Math is real, darling

Well done.

And human's being able to achieve an even greater prosperity is real, darling.