uk popn is about 20m too high

Eh disagree.

more if we want to adopt low-intensity, sustainable food production

The idea of population being "too high" is very non-existent imo

it's neither "very non-existen", nor "non-existent"

it's real, now, and if you disagree you're either scientifically illiterate, or delusional

lol

the habitat cannot support current population levels

The idea that our population is too high isn't scientific

it's your opinion

don't act like its more legitimate than it is

this is why environmentalists - i.e. proper scientists, not greta thunberg types, have been screaming about habitat loss and devestating species diversity loss for the last 20 years

I mean if you want no habitat loss at all then why not just round up all humans and kill em all

Because human civilisation does not mesh well with the survival of other animals

you're better than that, kunarian

You're better than that

Humans are more important than random animals

i'm telling you what the science says

they're not

They are

"random animals" are essential to our surivival

they're what make nature cycles work

And we can work out how to survive like we always have

yes, by limiting our population

No

We've never needed to limit population to survive

that's because limiting population was never the pressure before

It's always been a pressure

no

What are you talking about?

the pressure previously was having enough numbers to survive

go check your population graphs

No.

Population in the past wasn't easier to manage.

It caused massive problems.

it was self-managing

No it really wasn't.

Why do you think people used to starve more and plagues happened?

Not self managing at all.

population wasn't kept low by starvation and plague

Who said that?