Message from @SYDWAD
Discord ID: 602454770501943297
the machines arent going to make massive stockpiles to never be touched again they will use them to make more machines and infostructure
Right
Which can fuel itself through acquiring more resources
as well just by how reality works some things will always be more scarce than others, just by there being more hydrogen than oxygen in the universe "post scarcity" is impossible
my point is that only once you can maintain that constant gap between supply and demand with an substantial excess in supply and a large rate of change of supply exceeding that of the rate of change of demand then it would be effective to switch to communism as at this point you wouldn't be 'running out of other peoples money' if you're accruing labour from automating systems.
Post scarcity literally is referring to the inability for our demand to exceed our supply
no its a scifi word
Which is why I try to make it very clear that I see it as a effective end-goal
post=after, scarcity
due to some things always being more scarce than others there is no post scarcity.
And under the claim I've made which hasn't been countered yet I see it is as possible
Then let me rephase to 'effective post-scarcity'
whereby the supply exceeds the demand and the rate of change of supply exceeds the rate of change of demand
this is the logical conclusion of human advancement in labour
All we've done is devalued product in favour of new product
eventually all product will reach net devaluation given the criteria is met
but in history there has never been a point where supply exceed demand for long, even with the industrial revolution hundreds of times more production than ever before the population jumped right after it, no high the jump we always follow. Someone always finds a way to use what is not being used.
Right, but the rate of change of that has been constantly exceeded every technological revolution
Even from a realist stance let alone optimistic stance it can be seen to be heading in such a direction
we industrialize space and now there is millions of times larger resources per person? now we have millions of times larger homes.
Someone will always want what someone else has, not always, there are those content with welfare but the drive for more is in our nature.
Now we own half the galaxy, each human has 8000 star systems to call home. All resources are being used, we can always make due with more.
Why would we have millions of times larger homes?
primarily because its a status symbol and it inflates the ego
and you're assuming that the rate of change of the rate of change of supply isn't incrementing when it is
perhaps humanity will need larger homes
you dont *need* a 10x10m home with space to live in, you dont *need* a tv or internet but we *want* it. And i for sure would *want* a planet sized mansion
but we can substantiate that demand
mood
there is also the issue of replication
@Deleted User mood?
im agreeing with you ?
there is individual autonomy whereby one could replicate the very devices and products they could acquire with currency
in a near future
in such a world what would be the use of currency
or rather
the use of currency would become much more limited as it would be an effective mix between gift and market economy if the valuation of certain goods approach null
and someone will probably make a claim to whatever they make so its again not as simple as "1.5x food for every human on earth" someone owns it and is using it in some way
The point was that post-scarcity has already been achieved for food
but the rest of the economy isn't built for communism as result of scarcity for other product
and in a world where every individual can have their own means of production and have the information to replicate product, product devaluation would ensue
first point no, since its harder for one person to get it than another its not post.
And i go back to the production, just because there is enough doesn't mean its as simple as "stop this group from *hording* it and give it to those with less" if the only reason there is more is because those with the ability want to make use of it in some way, its not just sitting not being used and free to reditribute like someone owning a lake next to a dying town
Yes it's harder under a market economy