Message from @franti
Discord ID: 380778906657226752
just the idea being Taxation is theft
if you choose to pay into a system like Social Security or you have a choice to opt out it removes the monopoly of force from the equation
and the system could only get better
but if it is forced the system only devolves because non net contributers to the system will be the majority and they will vote for more
but it removes force only for that particular right, no?
yes
but this is more abstract than anything else
if being a citizen of a country wasnt inherent it was something that had to be earned
the system could only benefit
non net contributers could not subvert the system to their will
Well here we go Dan, these are the words to the argument I had drifting around in my head unable to articulate.
the problem of democracy was disscussed by our founding fathers at length
it needs checks and balances
but they could have never predicted the idea of positive rights
Yeah man that's a really helpful concept. So libertarians basically don't like positive rights for the most part, sort of as an inherent general rule?
I like my positive rights
only if they are held as a monopoly by the government
Positive right are more of a pragmatic argument
if you had a choice between social secutiy or keeping your money an investing it yourself
social security could only benifit because now it has to compete
it would have to provide more positives than negatives to survive
but here you dont have a choice if you can keep the money to pay into SS
You can split the tax money you have to pay between the goverment and private investment here
So a positive right is the notion that something is required to be provided to you. So if someone *other* then govt is required to provide it, then it's okay?
if someone was providing a service to you
it would no longer be a right
it would just be something you choose to pay into
It is more of a positive privelege
I go away for an hour and now I have to catch up on a debate about voting
have fun dude
k bai franti
I am staying
oh I see
I already went away
Regarding voting, You are part of the citizenry, as whole the goverment serves the whole citizenry
Sure, so one example of a pretty solid positive right would be police protection. But then again... that's tricky. As far as I'm aware, police aren't actually required to protect you, correct?
Police are for law enforcment
police protect property rights
They are not a protection sevice
They solve crime