Baby being in her uterus or in her arms.

My point is, we can still make a moral judgement regardless of how practical it is to enforce.

I'm talking about this from a legal perspective, not a moral perspective.

But the whole question is what moral values determine what the law should be.

Morals shouldn't be the sole thing that determines laws, you have to factor in whether enforcing the law is feasable or even possible.

"A human being should have the freedom to do with his/her body whatever he/she wishes" versus "no life should be sacrificed to save somebody a discomfort".

Moral principles are what give origin to laws.

Why should any life be saved?

Okay, okay, slow down a bit.

More specifically, why should the state have the obligation to save any life?

I mean, if a bridge collapses, and a bunch of people die, let their surviving family members sue whoever is responsible for the bridge's collapse. Why should the state get involved?

With abortion laws, it's pretty much you either legalize it or you make it illegal. If you legalize it, a small portion of women will kill babies because the pill is too difficult. However, making it illegal will cause a portion of women who were impregnated against their will to be forced to raise a child they didn't ask for.

One could argue that the state has a moral obligation to ensure everyone has a chance to survive.

One could also argue the state has a moral obligation to ensure everyone has the right to not have their lives ruined by forces outside of their control.

Only 1% of abortions are done as result of rape, mind you.

See: flood insurance

Do you really think that women are just going to start aborting babies for trivial reasons just because it's legal?

Less than 1% of abortions are done to save the mother's life.

If a woman is aborting a baby and going through all of that emotional trauma, there's likely a damn good reason for it.

They already *are* aborting for trivial reasons.

Define trivial.

I'm not talking about saving women's lives, I'm talking about saving their chance to have a life outside of poverty.

Okay, let me answer this question before you ask another.

Women are allowed to give their baby for adoption.

When I say trivial, I mean women should be allowed to abort a baby if it's going to screw over their life. The woman is the one who decides that.

Let's simplify this discussion; I'm making the same points as Crowder, it's easier to see where he went. Then you can decide if you have a better response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCSZYJywQPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUd6Z_zyXZM

If you truly think a 9 month baby isn't worth saving because the mother doesn't want, then, like Crowder, we don't have much to discuss.

Then indeed you need to make the point of what life, if any, deserves protection.

I genuinely doubt I could change your mind, regardless of what sort of reason I use to explain it. You've done a great job explaining your point of view, but it isn't going to change my mind either. Good talk though, you really had me at a loss a few times. 👍

I strongly recommend you to watch those two videos. He's legitimately trying to find a common ground. He's not being sarcastic, dismissive, or anything. The point is, if you can't derive your politics from anything other than tribal instinct of "us vs them", you might be wrong and you don't know it. And by "wrong" I mean contradict a principle you yourself hold true. One of the big divisions between left and right is, one thing the government has the duty to guarantee comfort, the other thinks the government has the duty prevent death.

He didn't make any religious argument by the way.

holy tits thats like an hour and 40 minutes of video

It's various conversations.

You can watch one or two or however many you think it's worth it.

I'll have to watch like half tonight and the rest tomorrow, thanks for sharing the vids with me

Come on, if you watch JBP, that's not bad.

I've seen some of Crowder's stuff and I thought most of it was pretty funny

I thought he was just a clown, but the Change My Mind videos made me actually pay more attention to him.

He's very smart.

Oh, maybe skip the first one, it's 1 hour with one bitch that just keeps going around in circles, talking about her own abortion and just ignoring anything Crowder said. "My pregnancy was traumatic, are you saying I shouldn't have aborted?"

The second one is much better.