Who said anything about them being the same, though?

Well considering what you said, about a study regarding athiests AND agnostics, and then about Peterson saying something about people not being atheist, that's the only thing I could think of to bring up that would follow the logic I see outright.

I do not recall off the top of my hat if people who said they believed in some kind of spirit or life force of the universe, were lumped in with atheists, in the studies that showed differences in moral behavior between them and religious people

Agnostics basically are indecisive, atheists are confident.

that's not the distinction I generally see

I think it'd be easier to seperate into groups those who believe in objective morality/ethics, and those who don't.

it's usually agnostic atheism vs gnostic atheism

and the people who say they believe in some kind of life force or spirit, are really just some kind of new age spiritualist

I also don't consider the majority of self-proclaimed Christians to be Christian. 70% of America identifies as Christian, and I can guarantee there aren't nearly enough Churches for that many actual Christians.

so you decide who is christian and who isn't? I generally tend to take people's word for it, if they say they're christian

is a christian someone who goes to church every week?

If you're going to be part of any religion, you don't pick and choose what to follow.

but that's what most people do

Isn't that the definition of a denomination?

Denominations come from different interpretations.

only fundamentalists who follow the word of the bible to the letter are "true" christians then?

Well if you're also not practicing your religion, it's hard to consider you part of it.

What about cultural christians?

"Cultural Christians"?

just put restrictions and regulations on all religions.

the people who believe western values are formed from a christian ideological basis

well they are.

Arguably they are.

not really, but that tends to be a longer discussion than I care for

"In God we Trust." "God-given right."

@Mal really then why aren't they.<:pepe_smug:378719408341909506>

Look at your damn money.

if you cared, you'd look it up yourself, instead of having me trying to explain it to you in a way that can only end up coming across as incredibly condescending <:pepe_smug:378719408341909506>

Obviously our western values are derived from chsritianity, or else the Muslims wouldn't be so fucked

is that a centrist typing?<:think_woke:378717098681171988>

At the time Europe was still quite Christian.

So it's not difficult to say that it was founded on the moral basis of Christianity.

yeah religion needs to be controlled and regulated.

Because what is moral to society, is what society primarily sees as moral.

I do not think some words that were added to your paper bills in the 50's make it entirely obvious that what you're saying is somehow true <:pepe_smug:378719408341909506>

And when society is primarily Christian, then it's logical to say it was.

He's right you know

@Mal you mean the 17th century?

except the moral values you call christian did not suddenly pop into existence with the advent of christianity <:pepe_smug:378719408341909506>

"in God we trust" was added in the 1950s

16th century, I believe.