I haven't made that claim

Also, what is the list of 'uncontrollable' assets now?

Is that gender? Sexuality? Ideology?

that social climate thing is pretty tricky for a few reason, the number one reason probably being the fake outrage and twisting of definitions doesn't give you a clear image of reality when it comes to actual racism and sexism, nor does what the president believes.

We're kind of getting to the big problem when it comes to talking about... humans, in general. Things can be made very subjective, very easily

Also... why would ideology be uncrontrollable

youd need to have mental problems

And my point is that 'progress' is a subjective term that should not be made a goal

I'm going to have to disagree

Look, 20 years ago, we would have said 73 genders was 'mental'. Now, to discriminate against that is a crime

one mans progress is another mans hell

We should always shoot for progress as long as, firstly, there is progress to be had (for this first part, I have reasons to say there is progress to be made, will share if necessary), and secondly, it actually is progress. It's that second part that's the big, bad issue, and that's why we need to always entertain a discussion about it. But looking at it this way, it's unwise to say that progress shouldn't be made a goal.

Progress is not a very easy thing to accomplish, is often divisive, but is a lot better than its opposite.

I can agree that 'extending equal societal acceptance to as many people as possible' is a good thing, but to broadly say 'progress' leads you down a dangerous hole of shifting terminology.

The road to hell is paved in good intentions

That's very true

However, it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a road at all

We should just watch where we're going

I would disagree actually

We can look back at our path, and see that up until now, we've been expanding liberty and freedom to more and more people as time has gone on.

It's only until the era of Utilitarianism and the concept of 'progress as a goal' that we've seen an opposite trend appear

It also opens up a door for 'the ends justify the means' style thinking, and we ALL know where that leads

Also, quick response to @AlanPowell's message: we all agree on that, which is why I'm trying (as any self-respecting person should) to find the truth lying beneath all that steaming garbage pile of representations

@Fitzydog But there is no *actual* necessity to think within the bounds of those ideas.
I like to see this problem like we see juvanoia (fear of the next generation's development). We "just now notice" our youth is going bad, while really, every single generation since the dawn of time has made that same claim.
I think the problem we're having is that we see a need to root our own thinking and our own opinions in what we suppose are the ideas of today. Ergo, progressivism, liberalism, resist, and on the other side, blind conservatism and the *spooky* alt-right

I think it's possible to forget all of those modern ways of thinking and to just set goals and debate upon them

Let us think about abortion. Let us think about employment. etc.

Sorry, I'm still trying to translate your paragraph

Hey Guy, look into Dan Bongino and Judicial Watch and the work they've done putting the puzzle pieces together on the Clinton Emails and a lot of other things.

^

Thanks, I'll look into it!

Litearlly just this week, deposition was opened up

huh

In any case, all I was saying is, you are allowed to just break away from currents of thought and see problems, see goals, and work towards them assuming there exists a "best solution"

I don't think you can discount or throw out my claim of societal regression with a 'phobia' term like 'juvanoia'

Which gives the word "progress" a lot more meaning

Without all this modernism fog

That was an example

>I think the problem we're having is that we see a need to root our own thinking and our own opinions in what we suppose are the ideas of today

Can you expand on this?

The big red pill with the Clinton emails is that she worked with the Obama administration to weaponize the federal intelligence and security agencies to conduct an illegal and unconstitutional investigation into the Trump campaign in the attempt to SHUT IT DOWN. Just throwing this out there because you were curious.

anyway continue on

You assume the reason why some in the political realm do what they do. And I mean, you have to, because you cannot rely on people for being fully honest about what they think. So, quoting your previous messages, "the ends justify the means style thinking", abusing the ideal of progress, all of those mechanisms that you see people push -- they shouldn't be reason for you, in your own thinking, to abolish progress as a goal

Faster: the way others think around you shouldn't have an impact on the way you think, no matter how disillusioning it might be

I'm suggesting that 'progress' in the areas that you define, are happening on their own, without our involvement.

But by putting 'progress' as a goal, you suddenly have to have a plan for that goal, and planners, and centralization of decision making, opinions on how things should be done, etc etc.

Look at SE Asia and Africa. They're 'progressing' out of poverty at exponential rates, and yet the 'progressives' want them to make decisions that will negatively impact them in detrimental ways.

*Because they're not progressing the way THEY want.*