@Rogal Dorn ok so I assume that you agree that a trait which is fitness-reducing will be selected against in-group, so the real question as I see it is - does the advantage conferred to the group somehow 'outweigh' the natural tendency of the group away from expressing this trait

when I was asking about the mechanism what I meant was

I'm trying to think of how to formulate it

I know that this gene may be present in an organism's relatives

but

won't it be fitness-reducing in them as well?

if it isn't expressing itself that way

then what if it does in the next generation?

on the one hand

that's the only way 'group selection' can happen - if a trait which is fitness reducing is expressed by non direct-descendent

s

on the other hand, if its fitness reducing, then I don't see how the population can't converge away from it

Well, so, you seem to be saying that it is a gene that would fail in terms of gene selection but be really good in terms of group selection. How does it pervade in the population if it is individually selected?

Well, we know it does. I will use genius as an example. The average genius has .3 fertility. Only one in three geniuses have children, yet it is in the population all the time.

about to start


https://youtu.be/Oc1W11onnwg

ok so we know it does, now I want to understand *how* it does, that's what I was trying to communicate when I asked the mechanism

Well, most often, these traits are not found in a single gene, but they are in many genes that have a epistasis effect on each other, which results in the phenotype being this reduced individual fitness but effective group selected trait.

right

I understand that

Lol

A genius is not someone who is just high IQ. It is a combination of these rare genes that make a weird combination, which results in geniuses.

The genius strategy is not to reproduce himself, but get others to reproduce more, so you get more of these odd combinations, resulting in the genius replicating.

It is all about finding the right niche. If you have a trait like this, and it does not have a niche, it probably won't survive.

So, the example you gave can only succeed if there is some way of him passing his genes on continuously through some niche.

As long as this gene is present in someone else, and it is replicating, he it will continue to rarely pop it, and that is what you want.

It can also mutant into the population. If the replicating increases the amount of breeding, it will increase the mutations being made, so it could replicate the gene that way or some gene very similar to it.

Actually, we need an evolution book library thing here. Most of you watch JF. He writes on evolution. But I find there are areas in which you are lacking. Perhaps, I could start submitting good books on evolution and genetics that interest you. I could start by submitting the Harvard intro to genetics textbook, then moving to more specific and cover books. @Nerthulas

that's a very good idea

I haven't studied biology at all btw

outside of 9th grade AP Bio

I actually have not had a class on evolution. All I know is from my reading online or watching Woodley.

Woodley lectures?

I think I can find some top tier textbooks for free.
His streams with Dutton are absolutely gold.

my interest was in history and social theory, and then I realized that the ultimate social theory begins with Darwin

This man has my upmost respect. His method is almost flawless, literally.

all previous theories were necessarily lacking

Yes, i could probably get an intro to sociobiology and evolutionary psychology and biology textbook

What method

Method for what?

His methodology in his studies seem to be flawless. I am going to get to a textbook on quantitative psychology and see if I can really see the novelty and nuance this man produces.

His work is very sound.