Yeah, speculation was a huge issue

Massive

It was complex, but the early twentieth century is a story of the collective horror of what the future would bring

And people readily chose to uproot the societal order several times before they let the bankers take control of their nations.

True

Again, I'm a fan of the efficiency and freedom of free markets, but I will never identity ideologically with capitalism. The market is a tool to be used to promote the welfare of the people, whether it's left to its own devices or state controlled down to the last dotted i

Of course, giving all the power to the bankers is inherently against free markets lol

Of course my argument is that is where it inevitably ends up.

Over and over again. The same way that communist countries end up starving again and again

Yeah, and on that I would beg to differ that free markets and capitalism lead to that

A fair position.

Mostly because I don't see history naturally culminating in that without a specific cause

Notably, outside the US

I am not ideologically tied down in economics like I am in social issues so I am certainly amenable to your views

Yeah, I see your same ideas often in the far-right

I just think people don't know econ history outside the US

I study econ at uni so I kinda have to learn this stuff

That's a good point. I don't know about foreign econ at all except for the Austria school

Outside the US as in the history out of the US, not that people outside the US don't learn history lol

Yeeeeeeeeee, Austrian school

I do know foreign history quite well though

And maybe Keynes

But he was a Jewish controlled psychopath of an economist though so I still tend to oppose him.

My phone's dying so I'll jump back on after it charges a bit

Keynes sucks

Cool

Yeah, in Africa, free markets have really helped them make progress (in the areas they actually get applied).

On an earlier point, Greek vs Roman freedom

Greek freedom is freedom to govern oneself (this is imo a really good approach to freedom and should allocate resources efficiently). Roman freedom is freedom to do as you please (this is what we have rn, and it actually doesn't allocate efficiently).

The issue is that on the outside, Roman freedom appears really good and efficient, but it isn't. The reason being that it falls to take into account a lot of moral externalities.

As an example, Roman freedom makes the porn industry look amazing because it makes a ton of money (producer surplus) and people get tons of dopamine (consumer surplus). The issue is there is a massive externality on the moral side of side this and in the rational side too.

The moral externalities should be obvious: lack of self-control, not honoring spouses, objectifying women, increase in promiscuity and sexual assault, human trafficking, I could go on and on.

The rational externalities are much more simple: Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction and Porn Induced Premature Ejaculation and more importantly, addiction

Addiction poses a problem to our basic assumptions actually. One assumption in economics is that people make rational decisions. Addiction eliminates this.

So why doesn't the government regulate this? 1) tax revenue, 2) separation of church and state makes it hard to argue morality, 3) (((they))) are notoriously strong in all sorts of spots in the private and public realms, particularly the porn industry though. Why would the government want to piss off their friends?

I don't mean that at all in a conspiracy way though. (((They))) are in the same tribe as a lot of the government. You don't want to hurt your tribe. That's exactly what we're trying to protect over here right? 1488 and Traditionalism and all Christendom, etc.

Also, they deny the rational implications, saying it's not addicting and doesn't cause PIED or PILE, which is again due to tribalism because the sex industry says that and puts out propoganda and the government believes it.

So Greek freedom does not allow for this

Greek freedom says that because people are not acting rationally, we should curb this to the socially optimal consumption

How much is that? Well, 0. So we make it illegal

All very good points.

It's a good rhetorical tool to differentiate between the concept of freedom in Rome and Greece, but I would assume that there is a bit more nuance. Clearly the Romans had a great deal of discipline that comes with a proper understanding of conquering the ego. Stoicism was born in Rome, right?