**Revelation 5:8 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**

```Dust


<8> When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. ```

revelation 8:3-4

**Revelation 8:3-4 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**

```Dust


<3> Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne. <4> And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. ```

Philippians 1:1 AMP

**Philippians 1:1 - Amplified Bible (AMP)**

```Dust
Thanksgiving

<1> Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed), To all the saints (God's people) in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, including the overseers and deacons: ```

Sainthood of all believers

and?

The prayers of the saints is referencing the prayers of all believers in Christ

Who interpret that though?

The original term saint meant a believer in Christ, not the current view that is currently held

So u could have intercession from anyone dead then

assuming they are in heaven

Anyone can intercede for anyone

so whats the problem

The problem is the elevated position that the current Catholic system gives to those deemed 'saints' by their definition

They were people, as much as we are people. The only thing giving them authority was Jesus Christ and not their own merits

yeah i dont know. im still in RCIA or whatever they call it over here. i consider myself an atheist only about a year ago. so i really shouldnt be in these conversations if im honest cuz all i do is get confused.

but id say this. do you really think the catholic church has had it wrong these 1800 years, presumably knowingly and still didnt change it?

that sounds quite evil

Hey what's the discussion about?

I wouldn't say they're wrong, there's still genuine Christians in Catholicism. Just from my point of view, the theology is flawed and unbiblical

What theology?

Confession, In persona Christi, Eucharist

oh boy it's a Protestant versus Papist discussion
Time to pick a side

I'm neither

Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli...all triple gay

Big funny

Your point of view is absolute insanity then. You could as well say that Christ being God is unbiblical

If you're christian and you're not Roman Catholic or Orthodox Catholic or Assyrian or Oriental you're a Protestant

@Mozalbete ⳩ Why's that?

First, because the apostles are given authority to forgive sins. Second, because the Eucharist isn't some cookie, and many people left Jesus when he told them about it

If the Eucharist has no real presence I find it very odd that early christians accused of being cannibals didn't say 'hey guys it's just a symbol lol'

@Mozalbete ⳩ The Bible instructs for us to confess our sins to *each other*, my issue with Eucharist is the ritual it's become

Ritual is exceedingly important

In the early church, many congregants would confess their sins in front of the church

The levitical priesthood was nothing but ritual

And nowhere did Christ say stop following ritual

The Bible doesn't talk. And also, Christ gives authority to forgive sins

The ritual is the reveration God deservves

Christ alone forgives sins

God alone has the power to give sins but he gave it to the apostles