Message from @Quarantine_Zone

Discord ID: 544324443741224970


2019-02-10 22:48:34 UTC  

Baptism is the new circumcsion

2019-02-10 22:48:35 UTC  

yet they are sola scriptura to the extreme

2019-02-10 22:48:46 UTC  

where the scriptures mention infant baptism

2019-02-10 22:48:48 UTC  

Last I checked, no baby ever asked to be circumcised

2019-02-10 23:24:43 UTC  

Or baptized either

2019-02-10 23:24:50 UTC  

consent is for fags

2019-02-10 23:35:15 UTC  

"This promise is for you and your children."

2019-02-10 23:35:21 UTC  

And all the household baptisms

2019-02-10 23:35:51 UTC  

And "children" is "teknon" which means "children," not "descendants"

2019-02-10 23:36:11 UTC  

If Luke wanted to say "descendants," he would have written "sperma"

2019-02-10 23:37:30 UTC  

Joachim Jeremias has the best defense of infant baptism IMO. He wrote two books defending it against Kurt Aland, who argues it didn't start till the late 2nd century (though he thinks we should still do it because he's Presbyterian)

2019-02-11 00:07:56 UTC  

I've come across that argument sometimes, that in the early church baptism was often put off until the person was on his deathbed, so that its justifying power would be like how you wait until after a workout to shower. Constantine was one of those, iirc.
It doesn't square with scriptural descriptions of new converts being baptized immediately, though.

2019-02-11 00:09:25 UTC  

Imagine putting off Baptism and you die unexpectedly. God is going to YEET you straight to Hell for playing politics with Salvation.

2019-02-11 00:09:37 UTC  

exactly

2019-02-11 00:10:28 UTC  

I was talking to a friend about Hell today.

2019-02-11 00:10:42 UTC  

We were discussing how priests don't preach about Hell enough.

2019-02-11 00:11:15 UTC  

It's one of the two places everybody is guaranteed to end up in.

2019-02-11 00:11:47 UTC  

There are a lot of people there already, and a lot of folks who claim to be Catholic will be heading there.

2019-02-11 00:55:30 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/435520935647248414/544320542774394880/2016-11-26_18-45-28.png

2019-02-11 01:10:43 UTC  

@SirLoin97 It's really a pretty bad argument though for that. Putting off baptism till the deathbed is a late practice from the historical record

2019-02-11 01:11:00 UTC  

"late" as in no evidence before Tertullian really

2019-02-11 01:17:03 UTC  

The best argument against it (from a Sola scriptura premise) is that there isn't an explicit example of it in the Bible or Christian church history until ~200 AD.

2019-02-11 01:17:49 UTC  

But there is tons of implicit evidence in both 2nd temple Judaism (proselyte baptism) and Christianity

2019-02-11 01:20:13 UTC  

Also, Sola Scriptura for the first generation of Reformers doesn't mean the same thing as it does for the Baptists

2019-02-11 01:21:08 UTC  

The first gen Reformers say Scripture is their only source for doctrine, but interpreting it uses outside sources (such as fathers, councils, Creeds, history, reason, etc.)

2019-02-11 01:21:29 UTC  

Baptists ditch the fathers, councils, Creeds, and history for the most part

2019-02-11 04:18:18 UTC  

Excellent distinction to make

2019-02-11 04:20:02 UTC  

for the Sola Scriptura thing, I mean

2019-02-11 04:21:43 UTC  

Constantine is also not someone to base anything theological on, considering he favored the Arians and was baptized by an Arian

2019-02-11 04:24:39 UTC  

Speaking of the Arians, are you familiar with Islamic history? or really, the specific episode in which Mohammed talks to "Bahira," which is a corruption of the title bhira which just is a priest. And so potentially Mohammed took ideas from an Arian in creating Islam

2019-02-11 04:25:29 UTC  

which makes a lot of sense, even if we don't go so far as to say he was demon-possessed

2019-02-11 05:31:06 UTC  

I've certainly heard he had Arian influence, and his doctrine is indeed Arian in nature

2019-02-11 05:31:26 UTC  

But I'm not familiar with any denomination using Constantine as an authority...

2019-02-11 05:31:58 UTC  

Oh, you're referring to how he was baptized on his death bed

2019-02-11 05:32:15 UTC  

Yeah, it was a trend in his time among a number of churches actually

2019-02-11 05:32:59 UTC  

But it got shut down fairly quickly. Jeremias deals with this situation in the second to last chapter of his first book on infant baptism

2019-02-11 05:33:16 UTC  

He refers to it as "A Crisis Averted"

2019-02-11 05:34:53 UTC  

As for Baptists, I will say that the London Baptists did affirm the Apostle's, Nicene, and Athanasian Creed.

2019-02-11 05:35:07 UTC  

Though not explicitly in their confessions

2019-02-11 05:35:33 UTC  

The later Baptists really ruin it though. I have a much harder time with them.

2019-02-11 05:36:27 UTC  

And it's sad that they have lost any sense of historical liturgy :(