Message from @Mozalbete ⳩

Discord ID: 617467090135285760


2019-08-31 21:10:04 UTC  

even though every step we take (or in this case, every actions, according to this metaphor) leads in a certain direction

2019-08-31 21:10:13 UTC  

only God can set you straight. you cant do it out of your own free will

2019-08-31 21:10:39 UTC  

Free will means to *choose* God's will over your own

2019-08-31 21:11:03 UTC  

What you're saying is "You don't have free will until you choose God"

2019-08-31 21:11:08 UTC  

that's an illogical statement

2019-08-31 21:11:09 UTC  

>you cant do it out of your own free will
Good way to pavlov yourself into inaction and sloth.

2019-08-31 21:11:38 UTC  

no, what in saying is "your will is bound to sin until God chooses YOU"

2019-08-31 21:11:51 UTC  

Aren't we all chosen to begin with?

2019-08-31 21:12:03 UTC  

And the matter is just recognizing you're chosen?

2019-08-31 21:12:12 UTC  

God has only chosen people once, and that was with the Jews. And even after being chosen, they rejected him

2019-08-31 21:12:17 UTC  

You have to choose it, but that choice is able thanks to God

2019-08-31 21:12:25 UTC  

there are choices, you can't deny that

2019-08-31 21:12:34 UTC  

But there is no personal merit when choosing good

2019-08-31 21:12:48 UTC  

The 3rd tenet of Calvinism

2019-08-31 21:12:56 UTC  

And, what calvinists will deny:

2019-08-31 21:13:00 UTC  

**Unconditional election: **This is the belief that God predestined individuals for salvation, and that individuals cannot choose God without God enabling them to do so.

2019-08-31 21:13:04 UTC  

Grace is not enough

2019-08-31 21:13:07 UTC  

In the sense

2019-08-31 21:13:16 UTC  

That it doesn't guarantee you will choose the right path

2019-08-31 21:13:22 UTC  

This is false because Jews were chosen by God and they rejected him. And therefore were denied salvation

2019-08-31 21:13:46 UTC  

I don't think "choosing" is used there in the same sense

2019-08-31 21:14:04 UTC  

@Mozalbete ⳩ no human on earth is walking a perfectly straight Godly path

2019-08-31 21:14:20 UTC  

I don't think that was the point.

2019-08-31 21:14:20 UTC  

thats the point isnt it?

2019-08-31 21:14:23 UTC  

That doesn't mean that people don't choose

2019-08-31 21:14:25 UTC  

Kek.

2019-08-31 21:14:30 UTC  

I know that, but even grace doesn't guarantee someone's salvation

2019-08-31 21:15:14 UTC  

@ninjacats did you see the video I linked

2019-08-31 21:15:18 UTC  

but thats what the New Testament says

2019-08-31 21:15:28 UTC  

It enables it

2019-08-31 21:15:37 UTC  

What version we talking about

2019-08-31 21:15:42 UTC  

But you can just as easily reject it and turn to evil

2019-08-31 21:15:43 UTC  

better be KJV

2019-08-31 21:15:45 UTC  

@Deleted User yes i did

2019-08-31 21:17:02 UTC  

The NT makes it very clear, doesn't say that those who receive grace already have a guaranteed salvatgion and those who don't a guaranteed doom. We are always told to be vigilant, to choose good and to be careful with temptations that can ruin our prospects of salvation

2019-08-31 21:18:23 UTC  

but if you die not rejecting Christ, that's all that matters. literally we are so unworthy nothing we can possibly do matters. the point is we are so fallen it doesnt matter, but those whom God has chosen will, through the Holy Spirit, be driven to do good acts as much as a human can do

2019-08-31 21:18:50 UTC  

By that logic, every protestant is secured a spot in heaven

2019-08-31 21:19:00 UTC  

<:ultrathink:598074459706097664>

2019-08-31 21:19:00 UTC  

every christian engaging in carnal sin

2019-08-31 21:19:02 UTC  

Salvation by grace alone is a basic teaching shared by catholics, orthodox, and pretty much all

2019-08-31 21:19:13 UTC  

for example my father who still fornicates