@@scaevola I use Nord personally

I need to get a VPN.

Sorry my discord app is fucking up.

Usually use them while using Russian internet.

i picked up a lifetime sub to VPN Secure

a while back

If someone isnt allowed to buy a gun, because they might endanger what like 50 people tops? They shouldnt be allowed to have a say in how millions live their life and possibly fucking all of their lives up in the proccess

right so have one age for the age of majority and you get all your rights then

vote, own guns, enlist in the military, etc. agreed

One age for everything would be best.

drink, smoke

The age between 18-21 is pretty messed up at this point, though

very nebulous, in terms of rights and responsibilities

absolutely. its arbitrary af

but if you draw 5 lines, one for drinking one for smoking one for voting etc its just as arbitrary

but thats what we're saying

Ideally, I think everything should have the same starting age (drinking, voting, gun ownership, etc.) and parents will have instilled responsibility in their kids starting much earlier so it's not a huge deal

realistically, this will not be the case

I believe boys should become men at 12.

Teens can handle a lot more than they are given today.

Im not disagrreing with you but just saying the alternative is just as bad, so arbitrarity isnt a legit criticism

it will always be arbitrary

Back when you weren't expected to live past 40 it was common for those that hit puberty to be considered for the most part, as men.

minimum wage should be lowered so more teens can get jobs while in high school

So joining the military and hard drinking with 12?

There should not *be* a minimum wage

Not drinking, but yes to the military.

Not front line combat, but 12 year olds could fulfill a lot of other roles.

So they arent real men

they cant really make life decisions

For all legal intents and purposes they were. The only thing holding them back were physical limitations.

Are 20 year old midgets not real men?

Youre not a man if you arent allowed to purchase alcohol because that would be bad for you

You can if you hop over to Mexico or Canada.

@scaevola having a limit to the age at which you can buy alchohol isn't arbitrary.

The market will determine the minimum wage. More jobs = less workers meaning places will have to pay more to get the good employees

The age you get your rights is.

Just because alchohol would damage your development doesn't mean you can't be held to a high standard of responsibility

the right to buy and do what you want

Booze and cigs aren't rights - if I had my way, the age for those would be 25

Alchohol isn't a human right.